British Symphonists on CD: The Winners and the Losers

[some guy]

And of course, there's always Frank Corcoran, whose symphonies 2, 3, and 4 have been recorded on Marco Polo.

[Rons_talking]

I wish there were more recordings of Peter Racine Fricker's music. I've always admired his first symphony which was recorded way back when by the Louisville Orchestra. I'm presently listening to his wind Quintet on RDIO ( a live recording) and I've heard recordings of his String Quartet 1 but it seems nearly everything is out of print. His Violin Concerto is is available on itunes but what I really want to hear is the remainder of his symphonies. That first symphony really got to me back in the day.
You're right about Fricker's waning popularity. His music is counterpuntal and highly chromatic; traditionalists would want something "easier" and he was never an avant- guard composer so once he moved to California it seemed he was forgotten by some. So many works you have listed...wow!

I think that it would be fair to say that I remain to be convinced about Holbrooke.....but the opportunity to hear one of the big symphonies(say No.2 "Apollo and the Seaman" or No.3 "Ships") might make all the difference

As for Fricker and Hamilton .....oh I couldn't call them "beloved" Neither wrote "easy" music although Hamilton returned to writing diatonic music towards the end of his life in an attempt to make it more accessible/acceptable(it didn't )

I admire both composers: partly because they continued writing in the traditional forms and also because I can respect their seriousness of purpose....but theirs is not music which can be listened to without fierce concentration. I am also somewhat ashamed, I suppose, that musical fashion should have dealt them such an unkind hand. In the 1950s and early 1960s they were both regarded as composers at the cutting-edge of British music yet within 20 years their music had-as I have said before-fallen into an abyss between, on the one hand, much more avant-garde musical forms and on the other, the rediscovered interest in the "romantic", either through the revival of interest in late 19th and early 20th century composers or the neo-romantic composers of more recent times.

Fricker and Hamilton are now in limbo. Unless CPO suddenly decides to take them up then they have no chance. I cannot see Dutton ever recording them (it would be a very hard sell).  Yet.........Chandos have produced a Lutoslawski series and neither F. nor H. is any more "difficult" than the Pole

[cilgwyn]

In case you don't already know;you can listen to off air recordings (of variable sound quality) of lots of commercially unavailable music by Fricker at the AMF (Art Music Forum). You have to register first as a member,like you do here,of course. The sound quality of some of the recordings is pretty poor though!

[jlaurson]

Have we got John Kinsella in that list, yet?

He's got a few of his (wonderful) symphonies out...

[The new erato]

Is Kinsella British? Ref this definition: "Britain or Great Britain consists of England, Scotland, and Wales."

[jlaurson]

Is Kinsella British? Ref this definition: "Britain or Great Britain consists of England, Scotland, and Wales."

...and Northern Ireland, surely. But Kinsella is indeed from the wrong part of Ireland. (Wrong only in the sense of: not fitting the GB definition.)

[Christo]

Have we got John Kinsella in that list, yet? He's got a few of his (wonderful) symphonies out...

...and Northern Ireland, surely. But Kinsella is indeed from the wrong part of Ireland. (Wrong only in the sense of: not fitting the GB definition.)

His Fifth Symphony from 1992, celebrating (and using poems by) 'The 1916 Poets', makes clear at which side of the line in the sand he stands. :-) I've been playing his symphonies a lot, these weeks, and the wonderfully expressive No. 7 from 1997 is probably my favourite in the series. Most of them have now been recorded:

Nos. 1 (1984, starting from the 1980 Essay for Orchestra now used as its first movement) and 2 (1987-8) are on Youtube (the same radio recordings can be downloaded on the Art-Music Forum). Nos. 3 'Joie de Vivre' (1989-90) and 4 'The Four Provinces' (1990-91) were released on the Marco Polo cd in 1997, and I remember that especially No. 3 received warm applause in those years, mine included. Nos. 5 'The 1916 Poets'  for baritone, speaker and orchestra (1994) is coupled with No. 10 for small orchestra (2010) on a new Toccata cd. Nos. 6 (1992-3) and 7 for chorus and orchestra (1997) are on a RTE lyric cd, and No. 9 for Strings (2004) is on a cd by the Irish Chamber Orchestra coupled with other music for strings (called 'Homage').

Which leaves only Symphony No. 8 'Into the new Millennium', for three boy sopranos and orchestra (1999) out; it was performed in 2000 and probably recorded at that occasion, but the recording was never released AFAIK.

A doctoral thesis from 2012 by Seamas De-Barra, The Symphonies of John Kinsella (Durham University) is available online (http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/7313) and can serve as a guide and almost complete analysis. He's said to be working on Symphony No. 11.

[vandermolen]

He sent me a reply to my fan letter on the day he delivered his Symphony 8 for performance (he mentioned this in his lovely letter). So, I am anxious to hear it. Nos 3 and 4 remain my favourites but I have only heard four of them so far. Yes, he is from the Republic of Ireland and not Great Britain.

[North Star]

Kinsella doesn't even have a Wikipedia page. Or, rather, there's nothing on that page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kinsella

[vandermolen]

There's a bit here:

http://www.cmc.ie/composers/composer.cfm?composerID=75

[Christo]

He sent me a reply to my fan letter on the day he delivered his Symphony 8 for performance (he mentioned this in his lovely letter). So, I am anxious to hear it. Nos 3 and 4 remain my favourites but I have only heard four of them so far. Yes, he is from the Republic of Ireland and not Great Britain.

Thank you very much for sharing that letter! Only now I realize, that he wrote it after his Seventh Symphony from 1997. My guess would be that the Seventh meant very much for him and I myself think it's probably his finest, a highly imaginative and fascinating composition, more original than anything he'd written before. And yet there was hardly a response, it met with complete silence. That must be hard for a composer and I think that's the mood expressed in his response to your fan letter.

So, thank you also very much for writing your fan letter, because we probably owe the splendid Ninth and Tenth to it. 

[Christo]

BTW, this essay helped me as an introduction to most of the available recordings of Kinsella: http://www.catholic.org/news/ae/music/story.php?id=54749

And otherwise there's of course a complete 2012 thesis online that analyses all ten symphonies: http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/7313

[vandermolen]

Thank you very much for sharing that letter! Only now I realize, that he wrote it after his Seventh Symphony from 1997. My guess would be that the Seventh meant very much for him and I myself think it's probably his finest, a highly imaginative and fascinating composition, more original than anything he'd written before. And yet there was hardly a response, it met with complete silence. That must be hard for a composer and I think that's the mood expressed in his response to your fan letter.

So, thank you also very much for writing your fan letter, because we probably owe the splendid Ninth and Tenth to it. 

Yes, I am completely responsible for the 9th and 10th Symphony hahaha 

I listened to No 6 and 7 today and now share your enthusiasm for No 7 as well as No 6. I am getting to appreciate them as much as 3 and 4. Which do you recommend of the others Johan as those are the only ones I know? Kinsella's reply to me was very touching and I shall always keep it. I didn't realise that there had been so little response to Symphony 7, which is surprising as it is really good and quite approachable.

[Christo]

The four you mention - Nos. 3, 4, 6, 7 - are the core of the cycle and his very best, IMHO. Each of them exploring new territory and esp. No. 7 fulfilling the promise of the Third IMO, distinctly 'Kinsella' and nobody else. No. 5 'The 1916 Poets' uses both a baritone and a speaker and that's a bit too much for me, though the music is absolutely fine (and if you love Morning Heroes there's nothing to withhold you.  ). Nos. 9 and 10 were both written for the Limerick based Irish Chamber Orchestra and a sort of 'chamber symphonies', but both very different. No. 9 is a great piece for strings in the Bridge Variations tradition and quotes from Bach in a moving way. No. 10 is more playful and uses a small orchestra in a Schubertian way. Nos. 1 and 2 from the 1980s are a bit more 'traditional', but especially the Second helps explain the creative outburst of the Third, I w'd say.

I can't find a weak spot, it's simply a fine, highly original and distinct cycle as a whole, comparable to e.g. those by Tubin or Englund.

[vandermolen]

The four you mention - Nos. 3, 4, 6, 7 - are the core of the cycle and his very best, IMHO. Each of them exploring new territory and esp. No. 7 fulfilling the promise of the Third IMO, distinctly 'Kinsella' and nobody else. No. 5 'The 1916 Poets' uses both a baritone and a speaker and that's a bit too much for me, though the music is absolutely fine (and if you love Morning Heroes there's nothing to withhold you.  ). Nos. 9 and 10 were both written for the Limerick based Irish Chamber Orchestra and a sort of 'chamber symphonies', but both very different. No. 9 is a great piece for strings in the Bridge Variations tradition and quotes from Bach in a moving way. No. 10 is more playful and uses a small orchestra in a Schubertian way. Nos. 1 and 2 from the 1980s are a bit more 'traditional', but especially the Second helps explain the creative outburst of the Third, I w'd say.

I can't find a weak spot, it's simply a fine, highly original and distinct cycle as a whole, comparable to e.g. those by Tubin or Englund.

Many thanks Johan, that is very helpful. I am a great admirer of 'Morning Heroes' (Bliss's masterpiece I think), so I will get round to those other Kinsella symphonies. At the moment I am greatly enjoying No. 7. They are, like Tubin or Holmboe, of a consistent high quality.

PS I'm not too sure how pleased Kinsella would be with his extended appearance on the 'British symphonists' thread!

[Christo]

PS I'm not too sure how pleased Kinsella would be with his extended appearance on the 'British symphonists' thread!