Has Anyone been Music Director of 3 or more Big 5 American Orchestra?

[PerfectWagnerite]

Got a question for you guys and gals. Has anyone been music director of 3 or more of the so-called Big 5 American orchestras (Boston, Philadelphia, NY, Chicago and Cleveland)? I can think of quite a few that been music director to 2 of those but can't think of anyone who has been 3. The closest I can think of is Pierre Boulez (NY and Cleveland) and closely related to Chicago but never music director.

[Drasko]

Rodzinski?

[Ken B]

Got a question for you guys and gals. Has anyone been music director of 3 or more of the so-called Big 5 American orchestras (Boston, Philadelphia, NY, Chicago and Cleveland)? I can think of quite a few that been music director to 2 of those but can't think of anyone who has been 3. The closest I can think of is Pierre Boulez (NY and Cleveland) and closely related to Chicago but never music director.

A calumny on a great organization! I believe he was only "Music Advisor" not director of Cleveland.

[Ken B]

Rodzinski?

That sounds right.

[Brian]

This isn't the Big Five, but Stokowski ran Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Houston, and the NBC Symphony, plus "chief guest" conductor of the NYPO. That's a lot of American orchestras.

And Lorin Maazel, who ran New York and Cleveland, should be mentioned because his third American orchestra, Pittsburgh, arguably deserves to be ranked alongside the Five.

Rodzinski managed four: LA, Cleveland, New York, Chicago.

[MishaK]

I believe he was only "Music Advisor" not director of Cleveland.

That is correct.

Also, Theodore Thomas had two: NYPO and CSO. And now there is Muti with two (CSO, Philly, could have had NYPO if he had wanted).

If we expanded it to titled conductors and/or included those nearest in quality to the Big Five (Pitts, Cinci, SFSO, LAPO, Minn) we'd get a few more.

If we cast the net even wider it gets easier still: e.g. Eschenbach (Houston, Philly, National - plus Ravinia)

[MishaK]

OK, here's an attempt at a broader, complete accounting of conductors who held major titled positions (at least principal guest conductor) at more than one major US musical institution (not a summer festival, not a little regional orchestra).

4 Titled positions:

Dorati (Detroit, Minn, NSO, Dallas)
Reiner (Pitts, Cinci, CSO, Met)
Rodzinski (Cleve, NYPO, CSO, LAPO)
Slatkin (Detroit, St. Louis, LAPO, NSO)
Stokowski (Cinci, NYPO, Houston, Philly)

3 Titled positions:

Boulez (Cleve, NYPO, CSO)
de Waart (Minn, SFSO, Milwaukee)
Eschenbach (Philly, Houston, NSO)
Hendl (Dallas, Rochester, Erie)
Leinsdorf (Cleve, BSO, Rochester)
Maazel (Pitts, Cleve, NYPO)
Macal (Milwaukee, NJSO, San Antonio)
Mitropoulos (Minn, NYPO, Met)
Paur (Pitts, BSO, NYPO)
Previn (Pitts, LAPO, Houston)
Sokoloff (Cleve, Seattle, San Diego)
Steinberg (Pitts, BSO, Buffalo)
Tilson Thomas (SFSO, LAPO, Buffalo)
Toscanini (NYPO, NBC, Met)

2 Titled positions:

Allsop (Colorado, Baltimore)
Barbirolli (Houston, NYPO)
Damrosch (NYPO, Met)
Giulini (LAPO, CSO)
Hadley (SFSO, Seattle)
Haitink (BSO, CSO)
N. Järvi (Detroit, NJSO)
Klemperer (Pitts, LAPO)
Krips (SFSO, Buffalo)
Kubelik (CSO, Met)
Levine (BSO, Met)
Litton (Dallas, Colorado)
Mahler (NYPO, Met)
Mehta (NYPO, LAPO)
Monteux (BSO, SFSO)
Muti (Philly, CSO)
Ormandy (Minn, Philly)
Oue (Minn, Erie)
Ozawa (BSO, SFSO)
Seidl (NYPO, Met)
Shaw (Atlanta, San Diego)
Skrowaczewski (Minn, Milwaukee)
Solti (Dallas, CSO)
Szell (Cleve, Met)
Thomas (NYPO, CSO)
Zinman (Baltimore, Rochester)

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

2 Titled positions:

Wasn't Haitink principal guest in Boston for a while? That plus the CSO would give him 2 positions.

[Brian]

Misha, that post is incredible, and I'm adding to it with respect: Macal belongs in the 3 tier, having run San Antonio for two years on a sort of technicality. The orchestra was bankrupt and brought Macal in as Artistic Advisor to help shepherd them into their new era.

From a Macal interview:

In the last two years I was also Artistic Advisor of the San Antonio Symphony.  When they stopped playing, they were in quasi-bankruptcy, so I promised them to put it on the move.  It happened that it is now in quite good shape, so, I am leaving.  They are watching to hire the kind of musicians that I have shown they need.  It was a challenge for me to see if you can go from zero and do something, and now it is on the move.  I don't say that it is ever really secure, because no one orchestra is.  Basically in this country, that has happened everywhere if you don't care and if you don't anticipate enough.  But basically, I would say that San Antonio is in good shape artistically and financially, too.... I hired about 27 new musicians, and I believe that now for several years it will go.

[MishaK]

Thanks to both of you. Updated accordingly. And added Hadley and Skro, who slipped my earlier listing.

Also, I didn't find this on my cursory wikipedia review, but wasn't Colin Davis principal guest conductor of both NYPO and BSO? Does someone know?

I didn't put Solti in the third group, though if you wanted to be technical, he was appointed MD of the LAPO and accepted but then changed his mind when he got Chicago.

[Sergeant Rock]

Boulez (Cleve, NYPO, CSO)

Not that I  think you should change your list but simply to clarify: After Szell's death Louis Lane was appointed Resident Conductor. Boulez did have a title (musical advisor) but "...the title was largely honorary. His input during the two years after Szell's death has been greatly exaggerated, as Boulez himself has noted. He didn't do much more than conduct about four weeks of concerts each season--and fill many programs with contemporary fare that outraged a large portion of the public. His limited responsibilities in Cleveland had much to do with his job change: he was getting ready to become music director of the New York Philharmonic."
                                                                                    --Donald Rosenberg from The Cleveland Orchestra Story

[Karl Henning]

--and fill many programs with contemporary fare that outraged a large portion of the public.

So, pretty much fulfilling expectations 

[Karl Henning]

Even in the Jimmy era, there were barks of pain during the two BSO seasons of Schoenberg (with the Beethoven).

[MishaK]

He didn't do much more than conduct about four weeks of concerts each season

Well, that is not much different from the workload of a typical titled "Principal Guest Conductor" so it's all the same. ;-)

[jochanaan]

Even in the Jimmy era, there were barks of pain during the two BSO seasons of Schoenberg (with the Beethoven).

The sense I got was that they just didn't want to work as hard as Jimmy was making them work.  And maybe that says something about what Ozawa let them get away with...!

[Karl Henning]

Oh, I was speaking of the audiences 

[jochanaan]

Oh, well, audiences.  Who needs audiences?

[Karl Henning]

There were plenty who applauded.  There's audiences and there's audiences . . . .

[Karl Henning]

The nay-sayers may have been in the minority.  But they made sure they were loud 

[North Star]

The nay-sayers may have been in the minority.  But they made sure they were loud 

Are you sure this didn't happen in an Italian concert hall?  0:)