Haydn's Haus

[North Star]

Yes, if you don't mind...

I'm actually quite proud to be a Yankee, no offense taken. I thought it was just the Brits who hated being Euros... ?

Op 30? Guess my Old-Timer's Syndrome has kicked in... 

For the rest, though, sounds great. I shall join you later.

No Op. 30 of course, those are kbd sonatas.
And I have nothing against the Union, just don't expect that being in there makes our national identities vanish - perhaps unfortunately.

[Wakefield]

Bach vs. Haydn 1788/90



This looks as an important new release.

Listened to via ClassicsOnline HD, apparently it will be available in Europe the next week.

I have just listened to the Haydn disk and it's predictably superb.

Actually, I don't know if I have heard before a version better balanced than this, both interpretative as sonically.     

CD 1 [63:05]
Joseph Haydn: Trios for piano, flute & violoncello
Barthold Kuijken (flute), Wieland Kuijken (cello), Piet Kuijken (fortepiano)

tuning pitch a1 = 430 Hz
Barthold Kuijken: Eight-keyed grenadilla wood flute, replica after August Grenser, Dresden 1787 (Rudolf Tutz, Innsbruck, 1991)
Wieland Kuijken: Violoncello from the second half of the 18th century with the use of older parts, possibly by Andrea Amati (1564)
Piet Kuijken: Original fortepiano by Longman Clementi, London 1799, 68 keys (FF-c4); damper, una/2 corda; English stoss action; straight stringing (collection Chris Maene)

CD 2 [44:24]
Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach: Quartets for harpsichord, flute & viola
Barthold Kuijken (flute), Ann Cnop (viola), Ewald Demeyere (harpsichord)

tuning pitch a1 = 415 Hz
Barthold Kuijken: single-keyed boxwood flute, replica after August Grenser, Dresden ca. 1760 (Alain Weemaels, Brussels, 1990)
Ann Cnop: Anonymous saxon viola from the second half of the 18th century
Ewald Demeyere: French two-manual harpsichord (FF- e3), replica after Henri Hemsch, Paris 1736 (Augusto Bonza, Turbigo, 2003)

[Gurn Blanston]

Bach vs. Haydn 1788/90



This looks as an important new release.

Listened to via ClassicsOnline HD, apparently it will be available in Europe the next week.

I have just listened to the Haydn disk and it's predictably superb.

Actually, I don't know if I have heard before a version better balanced than this, both interpretative as sonically.     

Oy! More torture. Must say, I can hardly wait for this one to hit the shelves! Other than the questionable use of 'vs.' in the title, it looks perfect.

I haven't got that CPE music, as nearly as I can tell by a quick look at my shelves. I'm bound to like it though, and conceptually it will be nice to hear these works played by players of the same sensibility, taking out a variable from the stylistic puzzle.

Thanks for posting this, Gordo, although you've made today seem a little mundane, tomorrow looks way better! 

[Karl Henning]

Oy! More torture. Must say, I can hardly wait for this one to hit the shelves! Other than the questionable use of 'vs.' in the title, it looks perfect.

It's a gimmick;  and some of my colleagues do earnestly embrace the idea that they "need" a gimmick in our changed publication environment.

[Gurn Blanston]

It's a gimmick;  and some of my colleagues do earnestly embrace the idea that they "need" a gimmick in our changed publication environment.

Yes, you're right. If you recall, I went on at some length into the background of that 'Bach vs. Haydn' thing in a recent essay. The problem with gimmicks is that they promote some false ideas, even 230 years ex post facto. 

[Karl Henning]

The Sans-Souci Sorcerer and the Esterháza Eskhaton in the grudge-match of the Century!

[Gurn Blanston]

The Sans-Souci Sorcerer and the Esterháza Eskhaton in the grudge-match of the Century!

  Now that would sell tickets!

[Wakefield]

No doubt, it's basically a gimmick, but a good one.

In the liner notes Barthold Kuijken compares and explains carefully both groups of works, expressing a high degree of admiration for both of them.

For me, C. P. E. Bach's Quartets and Haydn's Trios are fascinating, highly refined and expressive, but each respective work group in a completely different way. it is known that C.P.E. Bach valued Haydn's compositions very highly, and that Haydn (who incidentally owned a copy of two of these C.P.E. Bach Quartets), like Mozart and Beethoven, greatly cherished C.P.E. Bach. Mozart said of him, "He is the father, we are the boys". But children do not always follow in their fathers' footsteps...

[Madiel]

I agree. It strikes me as much better gimmick than most, and one that actually makes some kind of musical and musicological sense.

[Gurn Blanston]

No doubt, it's basically a gimmick, but a good one.

In the liner notes Barthold Kuijken compares and explains carefully both groups of works, expressing a high degree of admiration for both of them.
 

Bach vs. Haydn  Yes, but back in the day it was alleged to be a real thing, and it wasn't, in fact. I have seen mention of it from time to time as though it was a real thing, I just hate to see those thoughts perpetuated. However, your quote from Kuijken is more representative of reality, pleased to see.

[Wakefield]

Bach vs. Haydn  Yes, but back in the day it was alleged to be a real thing, and it wasn't, in fact. I have seen mention of it from time to time as though it was a real thing, I just hate to see those thoughts perpetuated. However, your quote from Kuijken is more representative of reality, pleased to see.

I know and understand: regarding things one loves it's easy to be extraordinarily picky. And, as a matter of fact, a well established mistake is the hardest thing to remove in the world. Just make a wrong attribution and I'm sure it will survive for centuries!

[Gurn Blanston]

I know and understand: regarding things one loves it's easy to be extraordinarily picky. And, as a matter of fact, a well established mistake is the hardest thing to remove in the world. Just make a wrong attribution and I'm sure it will survive for centuries!

  You have that right! Just look at things like K1 numbers, or the famous "By Joseph Haydn (attributed)" and there you go.

Yes, it bothers me sometimes that the more I learn, the more I had wrong at the beginning, despite being well-meaning. The 'good stories', true or not, are the ones which live on! 

[Mookalafalas]

I heard there is going to be a part II, but with a better cover.   The two men will be on the cover, brandishing batons at one another. Bach will be made up to look like Arnold Schwarzeneggar, with the speaking blurb "I'll be Bach!"  and Haydn will be in the likeness of Rutger Hauer, and he'll reply "I won't be Haydn!" (although, presumably, he will). They'll both be wearing their underwear on the outside of their britches, and have capes. 

[Gurn Blanston]

I heard there is going to be a part II, but with a better cover.   The two men will be on the cover, brandishing batons at one another. Bach will be made up to look like Arnold Schwarzeneggar, with the speaking blurb "I'll be Bach!"  and Haydn will be in the likeness of Rutger Hauer, and he'll reply "I won't be Haydn!" (although, presumably, he will). They'll both be wearing their underwear on the outside of their britches, and have capes. 

    That'll work. We could get this guy to do the cover:

[Mookalafalas]

    That'll work. We could get this guy to do the cover:

Perfect!!

[Wakefield]

If I were forced to choose just one quote of Haydn to define his artistic persona, I'm not sure if wouldn't be this one. 

[Gurn Blanston]

If I were forced to choose just one quote of Haydn to define his artistic persona, I'm not sure if wouldn't be this one. 

Yes, it IS pretty definitive. 

[Gurn Blanston]

We tend to think that quality and fame go hand in hand; if it isn't famous it must be shabby... but when you have over 1000 works, not all of them can be famous, but they can all be excellent! I took a look at some like that this week, have a look if you'd like.

The quality of fame is not strained...

Thanks!

[Gurn Blanston]

I guess you all know by now that I like Haydn's music unreservedly. But even so, there are certain works which stand out above all the rest, for a variety of reasons. This week I took a look at one of them, and I think it is one of my own better efforts. See if you agree.

The Seven Last Words

Thanks,

[Wakefield]

I guess you all know by now that I like Haydn's music unreservedly. But even so, there are certain works which stand out above all the rest, for a variety of reasons. This week I took a look at one of them, and I think it is one of my own better efforts. See if you agree.

The Seven Last Words

Thanks,

Thanks for this effort, Gurn; this wonderful work deserves it.

I recall some years ago I commented very favorably the  Brautigam cycle of Haydn's keyboard music. I added that the crown of this cycle was the interpretation of the Last Seven Words (last volume, IIRC). Quickly one of our members said that this idea was a non-sense, as it wasn't a work originally composed for keyboard, and wasn't even directly prepared by Haydn (just revised). I knew it then and I haven't forgotten it so far, but the Seven Last Words have this power... and even its anomalous keyboard version should be ranked as one of the greatest works written for keyboard. Amen!