Beethoven symphony cycles (complete) in the best possible sound quality

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

I read almost all of that other long thread we had here a while back about the Beethoven symphony cycles. There were a lot of interesting suggestions (some I had never heard of), and as a result of that thread, the three sets that I am interested in trying (and will probably buy) are the Cluytens, Schuricht, and Immerseel. However, there was not a whole lot of discussion about sound quality in that thread. I assume the Schuricht is mono, but am not sure about the Cluytens and Immerseel. (Mono, of course does not necessarily equate to poor sound quality, and as a collector of historic recordings, I would argue that many of the finest sound recordings ever made were mono)

When I was new to classical music (25+ years ago) I listened to these a lot--mostly Bruno Walter and Furtwängler, et al. Then I moved on to other repertiore and listened less and less over the years. At this point, I want to hear some new ( to me at least) performances in excellent sound quality. I own both original Columbia LP sets of the Walter cycle (2 eyes and 6 eyes), and even for their day, they had an excessive level of tape hiss. The Sony/Columbia CD reissues were among the first CDs I ever bought in the early 90s, and, while the hiss was cleaned up, the recordings are still kind of cruddy sounding.

In any case, I am looking for the best possible sound quality combined with great performances--specifically in complete boxed set format. Suggestions appreciated!

[kishnevi]

I have a cheap CD player.  I have the Cluytens and the Immerseel.   Sound quality is what you expect based on their age.  Cluytens dates are 1958-1961.  I have it as part of a 50CD set from EMI France, so I have no idea of its availability as a separate set.

Interpretatively Cluytens struck me as typical mainstream Beethoven, well done but nothing startling.  Immerseel is of course PI.

To put my view of Cluytens into context, my favorites among mid 20th century cycles are Karajan 80s, Bohm/VPO, Bernstein/VPO.  My favorite MI overall is Chailly.

[kishnevi]

(Mono, of course does not necessarily equate to poor sound quality, and as a collector of historic recordings, I would argue that many of the finest sound recordings ever made were made.)

Quite true.  In fact, some late mono recordings are superior to early stereo recordings.

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

The early 1950s Period LP (mono) of the Kodaly Sonata for Unaccompanied Cello (op. 8 ) played by Janos Starker is superior to EVERY recording!

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Sorry, I am not familiar with "PI" and "MI" abbreviations as you've used them.

[kishnevi]

The early 1950s Period LP (mono) of the Kodaly Sonata for Unaccompanied Cello (op. 8 ) played by Janos Starker is superior to EVERY recording!

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Sorry, I am not familiar with "PI" and "MI" abbreviations as you've used them.

Sorry.
PI for period instruments.  MI for modern instruments.

[Bogey]

Nice thread.  I have this one on my wishlist.  It is on vinyl, but I have been very impressed with the sound of the couple of lps that I have grabbed on this label.



Hi-Q Records is a label that stands for the Highest in Quality Audiophile Recordings! These classical LPs have been faithfully reproduced from the original analogue EMI master tapes, cut at Abbey Road Studios, pressed on the original EMI presses at The Vinyl Factory in Hayes, England, and feature all original album artwork and packaging!

This 1968 recording features Otto Klemperer conducting the New Philharmonia Orchestra for this performance of Beethoven's Seventh Symphony.

[Bogey]

They have cds, but nothing with Beethoven on them:

http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&labelid=3964&categoryID=7

[George]

For performance and sound quality, my favorite is Wand.

Runner up - Barenboim.

[Todd]

Chailly.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

This puppy below. It's one of the last major projects Philips did as a company and it is a sonic spectacular, even in two-channel stereo (which is all I have).



[asin]B0000B1JWK[/asin]

[jfdrex]

I read almost all of that other long thread we had here a while back about the Beethoven symphony cycles. There were a lot of interesting suggestions (some I had never heard of), and as a result of that thread, the three sets that I am interested in trying (and will probably buy) are the Cluytens, Schuricht, and Immerseel. However, there was not a whole lot of discussion about sound quality in that thread. I assume the Schuricht is mono, but am not sure about the Cluytens and Immerseel. (Mono, of course does not necessarily equate to poor sound quality, and as a collector of historic recordings, I would argue that many of the finest sound recordings ever made were mono)

I'm not heard Immerseel's set, but both the Cluytens and Schuricht sets are among my favorites.  In fact, the Cluytens is my overall "default" set (when I just want to listen to one or another of the symphonies in itself, as opposed to listening to a particular "interpretation" of that symphony--if that makes any sense).  I listen to Schuricht mainly for the unique qualities of the French orchestra (their instruments have what I'd call a pungent, tangy sound very different from what you hear in any recording by a German, British, or American orchestra) and for Schuricht's no-nonsense interpretations.

That said, in neither of these sets could the sonics be described as being of "the best possible quality."  The Cluytens, recorded in the Jesus-Christus Kirche in Berlin in the late 1950s-1960, is rather reverberant; you get a big, bold, somewhat boomy wash of sound (at least on my admittedly low-medium-end system) rather than hearing fine detail.  It's not the sort of sound I normally prefer, yet it works for these interpretations.  The Schuricht set, recorded almost contemporaneously in the Salle Wagram in Paris, is in mono, except for Symphony No. 9.  (Evidently for some reason French EMI was late to adopt stereophonic recording!)  The sound is somewhat thin--more a consequence of the acoustic qualities of the particular hall than of the monophonic recording process itself--yet the recordings are quite detailed; you hear individual instrumental voices, especially the winds.  (In this respect, the recording aesthetic is quite different from the homogeneity of sound you find in certain recordings of HvK.)

Incidentally, the Beethoven symphony recordings in this release were remastered in 2012:

[asin]B008I15774[/asin]

I also have the Wand and Barenboim sets you mention.  The sound in both is quite fine, although I can imagine that there are other (more recent) recordings that are even more appealing to the demanding audiophile.

[bhodges]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this one: Vänskä and Minnesota. Though I have not heard several in the set (I have individual releases, not the box), the others are pretty spectacular, sound-wise, and the performances are terrific.

[asin]B002QEXN6Q[/asin]

--Bruce

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

In any case, I am looking for the best possible sound quality combined with great performances--specifically in complete boxed set format. Suggestions appreciated!

I like Haitink/LSO, featuring modern orchestra with some light HIP touches. It's also a hybrid SACD, if you're into that format.

[Holden]

The sound on the Harnoncourt/COE set was pretty spectacular and some of the performances weren't too shabby either though not at the top of my list. The Chailly and the Anima Eterna are still standouts for a combination of both.

[Jo498]

I have not heard the newer Chailly, Vänskä and others but when it came out around 2000? the Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin had spectacular sound (not sure if these are also available as SACDs) and beautiful playing, especially woodwinds. I only have two discs (4,5,7,8) because I had burned out on complete Beethoven sets already then but I do recommend this set both for sound and also as a rather "alternative" reading that is rather different from the currently dominating HIP-influenced "lean, mean and fast" school without going to the wilful extremes of Thielemann or Pletnev.

Even considering the age I do not think Cluytens has particularly good sound but it's o.k. for late 50s. (I have probably only heard about half of that set but I also fail to see what's so special about it. It's good but not special for me.)

[jlaurson]

Vanska, Chailly, and P.Jaervi (if he's been mentioned) very much seconded. Vanska especially.

[xochitl]

for upper-echelon sound over performances that are excellent but not 'the best' i'd say Herreweghe, Vanska, Dohnanyi. 
for partial cycles or single disks: Tilson Thomas, the Manze eroica sounds out of this world, Ivan Fischer's partial cycle also sounds amazing.

Harnoncourt and Gielen's cycles are more consistent musically but the recordings are a notch below (tho not much)
i always found Gardiner's cycle too good to be a DG recording

Skrowaczewski is illuminating from every angle, and a transparent but lighter recording fits it well

the Chailly clips terribly in big climaxes. it's glossy and hits all the right spots tonally but sounds over-produced and compressed. love the performances tho. the Barenboim is big and fruity and lovely soundwise but also overproduced.  Wand's recording just sounds so 80s compared to any of these, but his take on some symphonies is close to my reference.

you can also check out the Hanover Band for a controversial take that sounds pretty realistic as far as im concerned

[Ludwig]

Janson's Beethoven is tremendous. Probably my second favourite after van Immerseel.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/69/dp/B00E9HG1NK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438032252&sr=8-1&keywords=beethoven+jansons

[Karl Henning]

Janson's Beethoven is tremendous. Probably my second favourite after van Immerseel.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/69/dp/B00E9HG1NK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438032252&sr=8-1&keywords=beethoven+jansons

Very interesting, thanks.  I do very much enjoy the Immerseel, and I am not actually in the market for any more LvB cycles (the four we have are enough for us).

[Karl Henning]

Very interesting, thanks.  I do very much enjoy the Immerseel, and I am not actually in the market for any more LvB cycles (the four we have are enough for us).

And I was rightly nagged with a little doubt . . . we do in fact have six.

At least six.  Six which I can name right at the moment . . . .