Mussorgsky

[Bonehelm]

Anyone heard Salonen's Pictures at an exhibition (orchestrated by Ravel) with the Philharmonia orchestra in august 2006 BBC proms? If you haven't, go here, it's beyond excellent. Whole-heartedly recommended. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_98452AxFI

From that part I you can find links to the 2nd and 3rd and 4th part, unless you are blind.

[BachQ]

I can't hear it because my computer has something wrong with it.  The piece is also called "Dawn on the Moscow River." 

Sorry about your computer ........ It plays fine for me using Internet Explorer (but not AOL) ......

In the opera right after that gorgeous music comes the most horrible-sounding, loud chord.  It separates the soft gentle music of dawn arriving from the horrible things going on in people's lives under that sun.  Very effective.

Do you have the whole opera?  (like much of Mussorgsky, it's unfinished, of course).

[Anne]

Sorry about your computer ........ It plays fine for me using Internet Explorer (but not AOL) ......



Do you have the whole opera?  (like much of Mussorgsky, it's unfinished, of course).

Yes, I have the whole opera; it is my favorite.  I especially like the Gergiev version, Kirov Orchestra, Opera Chorus and Ballet from St. Petersburg, Mariinsky Theatre, 1991 DVD.  It is the same performance as the Gergiev CD's.  There is a mesmerising ballet in it that is very beautiful.

There is another performance with the Vienna State Opera and conducted by Abbado but I much prefer the Gergiev; it seems more "Russian."

[BachQ]

Yes, I have the whole opera; it is my favorite.  I especially like the Gergiev version, Kirov Orchestra, Opera Chorus and Ballet from St. Petersburg, Mariinsky Theatre, 1991 DVD.  It is the same performance as the Gergiev CD's.  There is a mesmerising ballet in it that is very beautiful.

There is another performance with the Vienna State Opera and conducted by Abbado but I much prefer the Gergiev; it seems more "Russian."

There's also this 1984 DVD:



Khovanschina is one of Russian opera's infrequently performed masterpieces, a work which has been gaining steadily in popularity in recent years. "The Khovansky Uprising" (as the title is often translated) is a sprawling tale of the struggle for power in Russia at the beginning of the reign of Peter The Great. This performance, taped "live" at the Bolshoi Opera in 1979, stars the great Russian bass Yevgeni Nesterenko as Dosifei, the Old Believer at religious and psychological war with the new order, led by Prince Ivan Khovansky. The manipulative Khovansky is powerfully portrayed here by Alexander Vedernikov, another of the world's great basses, little known outside of the Soviet Union. Marfa, one of Dosifei's followers and a fortune teller, is sung by the legendary mezzo-soprano Irina Arkhipova in a performance of great authority and dignity. Russian opera at the Bolshoi is the genuine article, and a remainder of the cast is equally impressive, from the mistrusting Prince Galitsyn of Evgeny Raikov to the clever, informing Shaklovity of Vladislav Romanovsky

[Anne]

Thanks for mentioning the Nesterenko.  That picture looks familiar and I think I have it but can't find it at the moment. I've been away from home and need to organize the shelves again.

Do you like Khovanshchina?  or Boris Godunov?

[BachQ]

Do you like Khovanshchina?  or Boris Godunov?

Bor is one of my faves, but I don't know Kho very well ........

[Anne]

Bor is one of my faves, but I don't know Kho very well ........

If you don't mind a suggestion?  Khovanshchina is harder to enjoy because it is talking about Peter the Great.  In Mussorgsky's era it was forbidden to put the Tsar on stage.  If he could have had the Tsar as a main character, he would have.  What does he do?  He talks all about Peter and the problems of his reign.  The best book for explaining the libretto is The New Grove Book of Opera.

There were 3 areas of conflict covered in the opera: 1) religion (the old believers vs the new religion, 2) the boyers  (They helped Peter rule Russia.  Many times, though, they were not to be trusted), and (3 the streltsy (Peter's personally trained soldiers and bodyguards.  Peter created these soldiers because he thought he could not trust or depend on the regular Russian soldiers.

Robert Graves has written a book, Peter the Great.  It is excellent!  There is also a movie made from Graves' book by the same title.  If you are interested and can't find the movie (it may be out of print), you may borrow my copy.  The movie is good and lasts 6 hours on slow speed on the VCR (NTSC).  If you read the book and watch the movie, Khovanshchina becomes much easier to enjoy.

Do you have the Gergiev CD's and DVD?  I liked them so much that I have never searched for anything else.

[BachQ]

If you don't mind a suggestion?  Khovanshchina is harder to enjoy because it is talking about Peter the Great.  In Mussorgsky's era it was forbidden to put the Tsar on stage.  If he could have had the Tsar as a main character, he would have.  What does he do?  He talks all about Peter and the problems of his reign.  The best book for explaining the libretto is The New Grove Book of Opera.

There were 3 areas of conflict covered in the opera: 1) religion (the old believers vs the new religion, 2) the boyers  (They helped Peter rule Russia.  Many times, though, they were not to be trusted), and (3 the streltsy (Peter's personally trained soldiers and bodyguards.  Peter created these soldiers because he thought he could not trust or depend on the regular Russian soldiers.

Robert Graves has written a book, Peter the Great.  It is excellent!  There is also a movie made from Graves' book by the same title.  If you are interested and can't find the movie (it may be out of print), you may borrow my copy.  The movie is good and lasts 6 hours on slow speed on the VCR (NTSC).  If you read the book and watch the movie, Khovanshchina becomes much easier to enjoy.

Thanks! 

Do you have the Gergiev CD's and DVD?  I liked them so much that I have never searched for anything else.

Thanks for the rec ....... the Gergiev DVD looks like the way to go! 

[Anne]

I hope you enjoy it.  For both Boris and Khovanshchina Gergiev is good for 1st CD or DVD.  After that Nesterenko is great for both operas.  There is one more DVD for Boris that is terrific:   

http://www.amazon.com/Mussorgsky-Godunov-Nesterenko-Arkhipova-Yaroslavtsev/dp/B0001AP1AS/ref=sr_1_31/104-6944379-3143911?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1192234582&sr=1-31

 

[ChamberNut]

Question:  Did Mussorgsky actually orchestrate anything on his own??  Just seems like everyone else finished his work for him. 

[Ugh]

Glad you like this, too.  I found it quite a revelation.  So just to confirm, there are three versions: Mussorgsky's original (i.e., earlier), this one above (in the middle) and the much more popular Rimsky-Korsakov orchestration (the last)?  (Sorry, I don't have the CD handy to look at the notes.) 

PS, totally off-topic but since you mentioned Benjamin, next week, I'm seeing his Into the Little Hill, I think in its U.S. premiere.

--Bruce

Don't forget the Stokowski Fantasia rearrangement - which was based on the RK version but slightly "modernized" Both these versions btw were based on the middle score, the choral arrangement, not the original, as I am sure you know.

Also, there is at least one Mussorgsky arrangement which has been lost, the one he intended for Mlada if I am not mistaken.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Question:  Did Mussorgsky actually orchestrate anything on his own??  Just seems like everyone else finished his work for him. 

Well, it's not exactly "finishing his work for him". There's a bit of a misconception that Mussorgsky couldn't orchestrate so others "stepped in" for him to complete the job.

But Boris exists in fully finished and orchestrated form by Mussorgsky himself and it's completely successful. Unfortunately the work gained popularity in Rimsky's more lush and "touched up" orchestration and it has taken awhile for the work to be recognized as the great work it is in original form.

Pictures is pretty much in the same boat. In this case however the piece was never intended to be orchestrated. Pictures began life as a solo piano piece that once again fell into the hands of "well-wishers" intent on "improving" the piece. Several orchestrations exist, even some that predate the famous Ravel orchestration that was actually commissioned by Koussevitzky and the Boston Symphony Orchestra.

Others have already mentioned Bare Mountain.

With Khovanshchina others had to finish it for him as he died before completion.   

[ChamberNut]

Well, it's not exactly "finishing his work for him". There's a bit of a misconception that Mussorgsky couldn't orchestrate so others "stepped in" for him to complete the job.

But Boris exists in fully finished and orchestrated form by Mussorgsky himself and it's completely successful. Unfortunately the work gained popularity in Rimsky's more lush and "touched up" orchestration and it has taken awhile for the work to be recognized as the great work it is in original form.

Pictures is pretty much in the same boat. In this case however the piece was never intended to be orchestrated. Pictures began life as a solo piano piece that once again fell into the hands of "well-wishers" intent on "improving" the piece. Several orchestrations exist, even some that predate the famous Ravel orchestration that was actually commissioned by Koussevitzky and the Boston Symphony Orchestra.

Others have already mentioned Bare Mountain.

With Khovanshchina others had to finish it for him as he died before completion.   

Thank you for this!  It does help to clarify things for me.  I'd be very interested in hearing Boris Godunov under Mussorgsky's own orchestration.  Any particular recordings for this?

[Wendell_E]

Thank you for this!  It does help to clarify things for me.  I'd be very interested in hearing Boris Godunov under Mussorgsky's own orchestration.  Any particular recordings for this?

I've got two, and would recommend either.

Gergiev's five-disc-for-the-price-of-three version: http://www.amazon.com/Boris-Godounov-1869-1872-Versions/dp/B00000DI3M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253727657&sr=1-2.  The first two discs have the original 1869 version, the last three discs are the revised 1872 version.

Abbado's set conflates the composer's two versions: http://www.amazon.com/Mussorgsky-Kotscherga-Lipovsek-Leiferkus-Langridge/dp/B0000029L4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253727657&sr=1-4

If I had to choose one, it'd be Abbado, but I'm glad not to have to make that choice.

[ChamberNut]

I've got two, and would recommend either.

Gergiev's five-disc-for-the-price-of-three version: http://www.amazon.com/Boris-Godounov-1869-1872-Versions/dp/B00000DI3M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253727657&sr=1-2.  The first two discs have the original 1869 version, the last three discs are the revised 1872 version.

Abbado's set conflates the composer's two versions: http://www.amazon.com/Mussorgsky-Kotscherga-Lipovsek-Leiferkus-Langridge/dp/B0000029L4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253727657&sr=1-4

If I had to choose one, it'd be Abbado, but I'm glad not to have to make that choice.

Wonderful, thank you! 

[Ugh]

There are a couple of piano transcriptions of Bare Mountain too, I find this one is great, certainly reminds me of the original piano version of Pictures:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U2bc96Z3QU&feature=related

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Thank you for this!  It does help to clarify things for me.  I'd be very interested in hearing Boris Godunov under Mussorgsky's own orchestration.  Any particular recordings for this?

Like Wendell_E I have both the Gergiev and the Abbado recordings. I might juuuust favor Gergiev for the darker, more brooding perspective but both are fine recordings.

[jowcol]

Mussorgsky is largely responsible for getting me interested in classical music.  (J.S. Bach is the other culprit.) 

Heather-- we have a lot in common!  Those two were the ones that pulled my into music, period.

[jowcol]

Love the SADOD ( Songs and Dances of Death) .......

I'm a big fan-- I'm not sure if I like the piano or Shosty orchestral version better.

I remember a while back Snyprr wondered what a Mussorsgky SQ would be like.  I'm wondering how well SADOD would fit.  Of course, with the deep Russian voices, it may be necessary to have one violin, and two Celli, like the Quartet "Invert"

[jowcol]

It is the ONLY opera I like (sorry opera fans) and I've seen it live two or three times in London. I like the "Symphonic Synthesis" arranged by Stokowski although many purists will disapprove I'm sure 

Sorry for the multiple posts in short order, but he is my original musical hero.

Ya gotta love the Symphonic Synthesis for how well it does the death of Boris with a loud Boom.

Quick thoughts. I too am not an opera buff, but love Boris and Khovanschina even more.  (Khovanschina strikes me as more consistently tuneful.  The last couple acts are really wonderful.  Boris is a lot more uneven...) I'll be honest- I keep an edit,and not the full things on my mp3 player.

Some people were asking about the multiple versions of Boris. Mussorgsky needed to write in a woman's part to get it accepted-- hence the Polish scenes, but he dropped the part outside St. Basil's which is gorgeous.  Rimsky's version incorporated some from both Mussorgsky versions, which is why you hear the lamenting fool in two places.  Rimsky did pare back some of Mussorgsky's more barbaric elements, such as the evil parallel fifths.     

I like Shostakovitch's approach on Khovanschina, in that he had a richer sound,but kept all of the edgier elements in.  (It was necessary to have someone finish this-- Mussorgsky was sinking fast. )

Another interesting project was Diaglev's idea to have many composer's orchestrate Khovanschina.  (Ravel and Stravinsky and others.) It never took off, but Stravinsky really did a very minimal arrangement of the final immolation scene which is quite haunting.

I adore Pictures at an Exhibition in any form.  When I was 3 or 4 I used to have visions when I heard it, and I'd cry and break things if I couldn't hear the Ravel version twice a day.  The Stokowski version doesn't work for me-- the massed strings in the beggining, and its a bit overdone.

He also had a childhood themed piano cycle that was quite good.  (One was the terror of a child locked in a closet-- very effective.)  Crazy about Songs and Dances of Death.  I need to give Sunless another try.

No mention of his late piano music-- I'm big on that. One Tear, Meditation, In the Village and Hoursoff are all great.  The critic in allmusic didn't like his later paino works, but think more like a chronically depressed Satie would sound.  Simple on the surface, but lots of depth. 

Supposedly, in the last year of his life, he had advanced beyond music into pure sound, and had created an onomatopoetic (sp?) account of a storm on the Black Sea cost that never got written down.  I lose a LOT of sleep over that.

There was an orchestration of his Opera Salammbo back in the 70s i have on vinyl.  Okay, but not a revelation.

Comparisons to Janacek are very apprepos.  Both were obsessed with the relationship between human speech and music.

Other works-- Capture of Kars is fun.  The Turkish theme in the middle is great.   The Dance of the Persian Slave Girls from Khovanschina should have gotten more airplay.

I still cannot forgive Tchaikovsky and Cui for the bad things they said about Modeste.  He was the man.