Scene from Amadeus

[Valentino]

To paraphrase Haffner (great post, btw), Amadeus is as good a springboard into Our music as any.

Now, excuse me while i kiss the sky I'll let the Hagens play KV421 one more time.

[Bunny]

I think D Minor means the scene that started this thread. I don't remember seeing it in the film either, and I don't think I would forget it . (I do remember the part that you mentioned though, Mike)

Is that from some sort of "director's cut" or simply a deleted scene added as a special attraction to the DVD edition?

Maciek

No wonder that was cut!  Berridge was completely out of her depth.

That scene or one very similar was in the Broadway play.  I remember it because it was (at that time) still shocking to see Jane Seymour's naked chest on stage.  It was quite a dramatic moment for her, and in comparison Elizabeth Berridge comes across as pallid and insipid.  In fact, the casting of Berridge was probably one of the greatest weaknesses of the film.  That role should have been played by Seymour who was electrifying on Broadway.  In fact, the whole Broadway cast was so much better than the cast of the movie.  No way could Tom Hulce compare to Tim Curry; although F. Murray Abraham was extremely good, Ian McKellan was much stronger because there was an extra something there.  That scene actually  made sense in the play as Seymour's Constanze was shrewder and more calculating.  Rather than playing it ingenuously, Seymour challenged McKellan both on an intellectual and sexual level. 

[DavidW]

I love the scene in the beginning where Salieri says something like "do you know this piece?"  And his visitor replies "oh yes that's charming!  You wrote that?"  And of course no, it's Mozart.

[Haffner]

There is no evidence that Salieri had any even marginal involvement with him in his final weeks. Mike

Hi Mike!


It bears mention that Antonio Salieri wildly applauded and bravoed one of the first presentations of The Magic Flute. More than jealousy/rivalry, he admired Mozart profoundly (completely understandable). And loved his music (ditto).

[Haffner]

It's among the best films ever made, regardless of historical inaccuracy. It's fickle to act on the assumption of my film experience, based on your own subjective view of the film. I have had many experiences with Kubrick, Bergman, Antonioni, Tarkovsky, Godard, Kar Wai, Altman, Fassbinder, Dreyer, etc; and to be sure, Amadeus is no less a great film. Oscar nods and historical snobbery does not detract from Milos Forman's excellent direction, and there has yet to be period piece recreated with such detail and engaging story.

This is where we draw the line between aesthetics and history. As it comes to the medium of film, most of what you see is dramatized or an adaption, and certifiably fiction. The greatness of the scene is found within the way it was put together through the editing, which is complemented by the dramatic performances and the somber mise-en-scene. There has yet to be a film about music which has delivered such a poetic communication with the character dialogue and the music itself. You truly feel the music coming to life as it is being written, an insight into the mind of a genius, which is precisely what makes the scene seminal, and most certainly unique within the medium.

I agree with Israfel, and I'm tentatively going to go as far as to assert that the movie didn't have to be about Salieri/Mozart to be terrific. Really well made, it's my favorite movie (tho that last designation is definitely due to its having been about Mozart, my favorite composer).

[Haffner]

so, basically you showed us this clip because she is naked. 

i do suggest that if you have the same urge in the near future, be so kind as to show us some real soft core porn, because that would be more satisfying than this.

Well, "Stanzi" is definitely my "type" (brunette, big brown eyes, wide dazzling smile, fair skin)...unfortunately my girl knows that (luckily she likes the movie as well, otherwise there would have been a very short lived place for it in our dvd collection.).

[Haffner]

What, he dies at the end? Well then, I certainly won't be watching that stupid movie!

The ending is one of the most heart-rending, dramatic scenes in history. Your life can be improved by seeing something that beautiful, trust me, Mr.Osa.

[Haffner]

To paraphrase Haffner (great post, btw), Amadeus is as good a springboard into Our music as any.

Now, excuse me while i kiss the sky I'll let the Hagens play KV421 one more time.

Sounds like you're having a terrific listening experience, V.! I haven't gotten the Hagen yet (still saving for the Quatuor Mosaique) but I've heard (and was mightily impressed) by the Hagen k 387 (my favorite) and 421 on Rhapsody!

[Haffner]

No wonder that was cut!  Berridge was completely out of her depth.

That scene or one very similar was in the Broadway play.  I remember it because it was (at that time) still shocking to see Jane Seymour's naked chest on stage.  It was quite a dramatic moment for her, and in comparison Elizabeth Berridge comes across as pallid and insipid.  In fact, the casting of Berridge was probably one of the greatest weaknesses of the film.  That role should have been played by Seymour who was electrifying on Broadway.  In fact, the whole Broadway cast was so much better than the cast of the movie.  No way could Tom Hulce compare to Tim Curry; although F. Murray Abraham was extremely good, Ian McKellan was much stronger because there was an extra something there.  That scene actually  made sense in the play as Seymour's Constanze was shrewder and more calculating.  Rather than playing it ingenuously, Seymour challenged McKellan both on an intellectual and sexual level. 

Forgetting temporarily the hugely superior acting of Seymour:

Seymour: Cutey
Berridge: WOW

[Bunny]

Forgetting temporarily the hugely superior acting of Seymour:

Seymour: Cutey
Berridge: WOW

Not 20 years ago when the movie was made.  Seymour was by far the more beautiful actress.  I think Forman was trying to cut costs on casting, so he chose 3 completely unknown actors for the leads.  Of all of them, only F. Murray Abraham has any name recognition today.  Hulce and Berridge seem to have slid back into obscurity.

[Haffner]

Not 20 years ago when the movie was made.  Seymour was by far the more beautiful actress.  I think Forman was trying to cut costs on casting, so he chose 3 completely unknown actors for the leads.  Of all of them, only F. Murray Abraham has any name recognition today.  Hulce and Berridge seem to have slid back into obscurity.

Jane...WHOA! Thanks! I didn't realize...


I really enjoyed Hulce's performance, and I loved him as the voice of the Hunchback of Notre Dame!

[Valentino]

My favourite scene is the one where Mozart is to meet the Emperor for the first time and Salieri has composed this march of welcome which the Emperor plays rather haplessly. Then Mozart plays it by memory and starts improvising on the piece, ending up with "Non piu andrai" from Figaro.
As Salieri in the next scene puts it to Our saviour on the cross: "- Grazie, Signore."

Jane Seymour as Stanzi would have been something. Berridge is good under the table before the Gran Partita, though.

[Haffner]

Jane Seymour as Stanzi would have been something. Berridge is good under the table before the Gran Partita, though.

A scene that has given me many secret...arousals. I have heard that Berridge was extremely lovely naked in the "Funhouse" as well.

[Mozart]

Yes, clear why you would feel that. But my favourite is the one leading up to that scene. Salieri looks greedily through Mozart's manuscripts. In his head he hears the unfolding of sublime melodies and is staggered that the music has no corrections, it comes straight out of Mozart's head onto the page as a finished work. Salieri feels the keen pain of despair, the unfairness that this nasty 'boy' should have naturally a superior talent than Salieri could ever reach for. He drops the manuscripts on the floor.

Whether true or not, from the point of view of the film it tells you a great deal very economically.

Mike

Its a brilliant movie, every scene has been so carefully thought out to bring out an amazing reaction. My favorite part is probably at the end when Salieri is helping Mozart write the confutatis.

[Mozart]

It's actually a Milos Forman film, which was adapted from the Peter Schaffer play.

The final scene with Mozart and Salieri penning the Confutatis movement of the Requiem (granted, it is completely fiction) is my favorite scene in the film. I believe it to be one of the greatest scenes ever filmed within the entire cinematic medium.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ226kQJiHY&mode=related&search=

great now i feel like an ass because i replied without reading this one yet. yes its an amazing scene.

[Mozart]

Gee . . . . . . I wonder why that scene got deleted? . . . . . . .

Yeah and I was in the library yesterday watching it like what the hell and of coarse people were behind me as i watching it. My face turned into an oversized tomato  Who need I would start a discussion of the movie?

I find little things about Mozart in the movie that are true. I find Mozart loves to play around in minor keys a bit and when he is improvising on that salieri tune (which isnt really a salieri tune at all) at the end it always makes me smile. Or at the beggining when he proposes, Mozart loved playing with words. If you really want to learn about Mozart read this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Character-Work-Galaxy-Books/dp/0195007328/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-0143643-9906305?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177436554&sr=8-2

[lisa needs braces]

An excellent summary of the film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1MF97d2Ayg

[Maciek]

The ending is one of the most heart-rending, dramatic scenes in history. Your life can be improved by seeing something that beautiful, trust me, Mr.Osa.

Nah, why would I want to watch a film where they make Mozart die at the end of his life?

[jochanaan]

Nah, why would I want to watch a film where they make Mozart die at the end of his life?

Maybe because it tells the truth?

A movie can be great for other reasons than historical accuracy.  Indeed, sometimes historical accuracy is deadly dull.

Despite its many historical inaccuracies, or rather poetic licenses, Amadeus is indeed a great film.  Like much great art, it challenges our preconceptions and forces us to look at life, especially artistic life, in a new way.  It is important to recognize, though, that it IS primarily fiction, and to judge it as such.  I have never heard that Peter Schaffer or Milos Forman claimed that the movie was entirely factual.

And it's certainly a much better film than Immortal Beloved, which is no more historically accurate than Amadeus and much less deep and provocative (despite the nudity or near-nudity of its three female leads ).

P.S.  I remember when Jane Seymour was commonly recognized as not only a legendary beauty but a powerful actress.  I would have loved to see that stage Amadeus, and I'd love to see what she's doing now.

[Bunny]

Maybe because it tells the truth?

A movie can be great for other reasons than historical accuracy.  Indeed, sometimes historical accuracy is deadly dull.

Despite its many historical inaccuracies, or rather poetic licenses, Amadeus is indeed a great film.  Like much great art, it challenges our preconceptions and forces us to look at life, especially artistic life, in a new way.  It is important to recognize, though, that it IS primarily fiction, and to judge it as such.  I have never heard that Peter Schaffer or Milos Forman claimed that the movie was entirely factual.

And it's certainly a much better film than Immortal Beloved, which is no more historically accurate than Amadeus and much less deep and provocative (despite the nudity or near-nudity of its three female leads ).

P.S.  I remember when Jane Seymour was commonly recognized as not only a legendary beauty but a powerful actress.  I would have loved to see that stage Amadeus, and I'd love to see what she's doing now.

It was her break through role, here.  Not surprisingly, the best thing about the show was Ian McKellan.  The play was actually imported from the London stage as it was originally produced by the Royal Theatre or National theatre or the Royal National theatre (who can remember, anyway?) or something like that.  After years as that Medicine Woman too many people don't remember that she actually could act and was once a James Bond girl (Solitaire in Live and Let Die).  Although I recognize how good Amadeus is, having seen the play I also realize that with stronger casting it could have been so much greater.