Haydn's Haus

[val]

sound sponge

You might be allowing the HIPness to color your opinion since you are one HIP dude.

In my case, I don't care if an interpretation claims to be HIP or not. I like the Lindsays in the opus 33, 54 and 55 and they are not HIP. And I like the Mosaiques (opus 20, 76, 77) or the Festetics (opus 50) that are HIP.   

And I don't like much the Tatrai (not HIP) or the Solomon Quartet (HIP HIP).

What interests me is the quality of the interpretation, the balance, the articulation, the dynamic and how intense it is.

I always had serious doubts about the possibility of an HIP interpretation. Rachmaninov playing his 2nd piano concerto becomes an HIP interpretation?

[locrian]

I listened to #2 last night and it was very fine.


Now you people have me nosing around for more Haydn string quartets.

[Gurn Blanston]

I listened to #2 last night and it was very fine.


Now you people have me nosing around for more Haydn string quartets.

I should hope so! Those who haven't tried them simply don't know the treat they are missing.

[locrian]

I should hope so! Those who haven't tried them simply don't know the treat they are missing.

I used to own a box of them by the Amadeus Quartet but so many people bitched about those recordings on this forum, that I sold it. Now, I realize that a box of "mediocre" Haydn string quartets is better than NONE!

[Gurn Blanston]

I used to own a box of them by the Amadeus Quartet but so many people bitched about those recordings on this forum, that I sold it. Now, I realize that a box of "mediocre" Haydn string quartets is better than NONE!

And they probably weren't actually mediocre either. I don't know, but I've learned that lesson. Haydn's music is big enough to overcome even a Romantic approach (if that's what the bitching was about). Anyway, the Kodaly's are quite capable of drawing you into the Haydn Trap...

[locrian]

And they probably weren't actually mediocre either. I don't know, but I've learned that lesson. Haydn's music is big enough to overcome even a Romantic approach (if that's what the bitching was about). Anyway, the Kodaly's are quite capable of drawing you into the Haydn Trap...

Drawing me "back" in, but I know what you mean. I haven't listened to Haydn in a while. It's been too long. Side note: I just ordered Hamelin's Haydn piano sonatas.

[Que]

I always had serious doubts about the possibility of an HIP interpretation. Rachmaninov playing his 2nd piano concerto becomes an HIP interpretation?

Thats sounds quite witty, but honestly does not make sense.
HIP tries to recreate the musical context of conception as historically accurate as possible.
But when a composer plays his own music (or any performer playing contemporary music) there is not much historical context to "recreate", is there? It is already there.

Q

[val]

Que

Thats sounds quite witty, but honestly does not make sense.
HIP tries to recreate the musical context of conception as historically accurate as possible.
But when a composer plays his own music (or any performer playing contemporary music) there is not much historical context to "recreate", is there? It is already there.

Yes, you are right. I was just giving an example "ad absurdum". But the point is that I don't believe, in art, in any kind of recreation of an historical style. HIP means only a modern tendency of interpretation. Any kind of musical interpretation depends on the personality of an artist of the present, according to techniques teached in the present, for a contemporary listener. Adolf Busch was HIP in 1935, Munchinger in 1955, Goebel in 1985, Koopman today. 
When I was 15 years old I loved the Four Seasons played by Munchinger. Then came Marriner. And today I wouldn't dream of listening this work played in their style. I have Biondi and other modern interpreters. But it is always a matter of choices based in a modern sensibility. I don't care if Vivaldi played like Biondi, Huggett or Standage.

[Que]

Yes, you are right. I was just giving an example "ad absurdum".

I thought as much!

But the point is that I don't believe, in art, in any kind of recreation of an historical style. HIP means only a modern tendency of interpretation. Any kind of musical interpretation depends on the personality of an artist of the present, according to techniques teached in the present, for a contemporary listener. Adolf Busch was HIP in 1935, Munchinger in 1955, Goebel in 1985, Koopman today. 
When I was 15 years old I loved the Four Seasons played by Munchinger. Then came Marriner. And today I wouldn't dream of listening this work played in their style. I have Biondi and other modern interpreters. But it is always a matter of choices based in a modern sensibility. I don't care if Vivaldi played like Biondi, Huggett or Standage.

Maybe this is not the appropriate thread for adiscussion on the meaning of HIP, so just a short reaction.
I feel HIP is an attempt to approximate an historical style. I don't think it's possible to recreate an historical style in absolute terms (100% correct), but I do feel it is possible to come closer to that ideal and that efforts to that effect bring me closer to the composer. Perhaps the idea to "recover" original performance practices is a very modern idea, fuelled by the changing of tastes. But I doubt if that means that HIP can be equated to modern taste. Maybe HIP influences modern taste, instead of the other way around? 

Personally I didn't like any Haydn before encountering HIP, and not much Bach or Mozart either. (And I do care if Vivaldi is played by Biondo or Huggett, but don't know if that has to do with a preference for HIP in general).

Q

[George]

Maybe this is not the appropriate thread for adiscussion on the meaning of HIP, so just a short reaction.

Perhaps we should start a thread on the topic, as I for one would love to hear more about HIP and discuss it.

In fact, I did.

[val]

George

Perhaps we should start a thread on the topic, as I for one would love to hear more about HIP and discuss it.

Yes, I missed your previous thread.

But all this opened my appetite, so I am going to listen to the Festetics in the sublime opus 50/4.

[George]

Yes, I missed your previous thread.

The link is below. It's the text "In fact, I did." 

In fact, I did.

[George]

So who do we like in Op. 33, people? 

[Gurn Blanston]

So who do we like in Op. 33, people? 

I like Quators Festetics a lot. But I haven't heard Quators Mosaiques yet...



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Now playing: London Baroque / Medlam - Bach JS BWV 1036 Sonata in d for Flute, Violin & BC 2nd mvmt - Allegro

[George]

I like Quators Festetics a lot. But I haven't heard Quators Mosaiques yet...

Not avail on amazon. 

[George]

I like Quators Festetics a lot. But I haven't heard Quators Mosaiques yet...



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Now playing: London Baroque / Medlam - Bach JS BWV 1036 Sonata in d for Flute, Violin & BC 2nd mvmt - Allegro

Where are you guys buying your Festetics CDs, anyway? 

[Gurn Blanston]

Not avail on amazon. 

ALL HIP performances go immediately OOP. This is a part of the allure of HIP (oops, wrong thread  ). It's on Harmonia Mundi if that's any help.



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Now playing: London Baroque / Medlam - Bach JS BWV 1036 Sonata in d for Flute, Violin & BC 2nd mvmt - Allegro

[Bogey]

Well, we have a Mozart and Beethoven thread under the HIP heading to reference, which I believe are invaluable resources for those interested in HIP recordings.  So, I thought a Haydn one would also be of use.  I do not have much HIP Haydn, so I will sit back and listen to you folks in "the know".

(Recommendations of Michael's works are also welcomed here.)

[Lethevich]

I second the Kuijken Paris symphonies, and the 5 CD black box on Virgin in general. His recordings of Haydn are a revelation. The Pinnock Sturm und Drang box is an obvious rec., but I find it slightly boring - it's as middle ground as you're going to find. I have a soft spot for the Goodman/Helios cycle. These recordings are very strong - they are not plagued by abysmal acoustics like Goodman's Nimbus recordings of Beethoven. They have a real zip to them, and a rougher edge than Kuijken. The harpsichord can become very prominent in the mix. I would recommend the disc with no.44 on for a sample.

The HIP quartet I enjoy most is the Mosaïques - I bought their cycle all in one go after hearing one disc, and it is beautiful from start to finish. The playing is ultra-smooth and refined, and they really dig inside the music. For HIP, they utilise a slightly slow-ish tempo. The sound quality is also amazing, it makes several leading alternatives sound downright murky until you adjust your ears.

The quartets are less important to hear HIP than the symphonies IMO (which is fortunate, as there is much less choice), and I find that the Mosaïques are competitive in every arena - even among traditional performances, fans of that style could find much to enjoy in QM.

[Peregrine]

I second the Kuijken Paris symphonies

Thirded! A super set, should be available quite cheaply as well. Really well played and conducted.