Well-known music you've somehow overlooked (or never got round to hearing)

[Madiel]

You not enjoying movies I do is not away from me. If anything, it's away from you.

There's tons of movies I consider crap. Why bother mentioning them? I gain nothing doing so.

Really?

The person you tell may well gain a couple of hours of time to do something more enjoyable. Declaring the Phantom Menace crap was in the context of a conversation with a colleague who had never seen it, and whose husband had advised her to start with Episode II. We were basically assuring her that she hadn't missed anything.

People want to know other people's opinions. People sometimes explicitly ask for them. And people like expressing them. There's another thread running at the moment about whether critics are of any use. To me, they're only of use if they're able to give both good and bad opinions, and any world where only good opinions are permitted to be expressed ends up turning into fakery where no-one is allowed to point out anything that is genuinely bad or wrong.

You are perfectly free to watch The Phantom Menace to your heart's content, but there's no rational reason why the rest of the world should thereby be censored from saying that they found it to be disappointing and from advising other people that they're statistically unlikely to enjoy it. Because most people don't.

[Florestan]

any world where only good opinions are permitted to be expressed ends up turning into fakery where no-one is allowed to point out anything that is genuinely bad or wrong.

Amen, brother!

[Karl Henning]

Like out-of-tune winds, and lousy brass tone! YES!

[Todd]

I've listened to only minimal amounts of Philip Glass, Terry Riley, and Steve Reich. 

[(poco) Sforzando]

"Somehow managed to avoid" does shade the deliberation. It is perhaps a bit of a colloquial oxymoron.

I would say I've somehow missed the music of Tubin, who sounds potentially interesting. A few years back, I would say I'd somehow missed the music of Braga-Santos. Now that I've actually heard some of Braga-Santos, I would say he is a composer I intend to avoid.

[Madiel]

Like out-of-tune winds, and lousy brass tone! YES!

Except, of course, if they were specifically called for in the score.

Pop music has its share of happy accidents that happen in the recording process, I was just reading about one of them a few minutes ago. And I can think of at least 2 instances of thinking something was an intended feature and being disappointed that it was actually a glitch in my copy. But classical music tends rather more to the idea that one must get the music "right".

[71 dB]

Really?

Yes, really!

The person you tell may well gain a couple of hours of time to do something more enjoyable.

Or the person may miss a movie he/she would have enjoyed. We never know. Pure speculation. Whenever I see a movie I think is crap I try to forget about it and move on with my life instead of moaning about how bad the movie is for years. People are still moaning about Jar Jar 16 years later! Come on! Jar Jar must be one of greatest movie characters ever judging from how much people love to hate him.  0:)

Declaring the Phantom Menace crap was in the context of a conversation with a colleague who had never seen it, and whose husband had advised her to start with Episode II. We were basically assuring her that she hadn't missed anything.

It's not my business where she starts. I don't care.

People want to know other people's opinions.

Well, my opinion is most people don't understand Lucas' art. If you find Jar Jar an annoying character instead of a funny one, you watch the movie with a wrong attitude/mindset. It's not Lucas' fault you are watching something outside your taste. Better watch movies your taste/mindset is better suited for. There you have my opinion.

People sometimes explicitly ask for them. And people like expressing them. There's another thread running at the moment about whether critics are of any use. To me, they're only of use if they're able to give both good and bad opinions, and any world where only good opinions are permitted to be expressed ends up turning into fakery where no-one is allowed to point out anything that is genuinely bad or wrong.

To me (movie) critics are completely useless.

You are perfectly free to watch The Phantom Menace to your heart's content,

Damn right I am and I do. Last time I watched it on Blu-ray was about 3 weeks ago.

but there's no rational reason why the rest of the world should thereby be censored from saying that they found it to be disappointing and from advising other people that they're statistically unlikely to enjoy it. Because most people don't.

I don't mean anyone should be sensored and believe or not many enjoy the Prequels a lot or at least find them ok.

http://swprequelframes.tumblr.com/

[(poco) Sforzando]

To me (movie) critics are completely useless.

Read comments on David Hurwitz Ass thread.

[Madiel]

Or the person may miss a movie he/she would have enjoyed. We never know. Pure speculation. Whenever I see a movie I think is crap I try to forget about it and move on with my life instead of moaning about how bad the movie is for years. People are still moaning about Jar Jar 16 years later! Come on! Jar Jar must be one of greatest movie characters ever judging from how much people love to hate him.  0:)

Why are you assuming I last saw the movie 16 years ago? It was 3 months ago.

It's not my business where she starts. I don't care.

Well she's my colleague and friend, not yours, and she asked a question, so what is she going to think if I just say "it's not my business, I don't care". A declaration from the other side of the globe that you don't care is pointless and a little petulant. This is not all about you, though you're trying very hard to make it so.

[71 dB]

Why are you assuming I last saw the movie 16 years ago? It was 3 months ago.

I was talking about people who have been moaning about Jar Jar for 16 years.
Why did you watch it 3 months ago if you have known for 16 years you don't like it?

Well she's my colleague and friend, not yours, and she asked a question, so what is she going to think if I just say "it's not my business, I don't care". A declaration from the other side of the globe that you don't care is pointless and a little petulant. This is not all about you, though you're trying very hard to make it so.

You did what you saw was the right thing to do, off course. Not sure what you tried to say with the story...

[(poco) Sforzando]

I was talking about people who have been moaning about Jar Jar for 16 years.

I've only been moaning about JJ for 15 years. Does that exonerate me?

[71 dB]

I've only been moaning about JJ for 15 years. Does that exonerate me?

The moaning becomes tiresome waste of time after the first week of so. 15 years is just as bad as 16 or 150 years.

[Madiel]

Why did you watch it 3 months ago if you have known for 16 years you don't like it?

I watched it 3 months ago because all 6 existing episodes were on television over 6 weekends, in sequence.

As for knowing for 16 years I don't like it... see, you are projecting this notion that everybody else thinks constantly about the Stars Wars movies. I saw it... well, I think it was shortly after it came out because of the circumstances that I can recall. I didn't like it. That doesn't mean that I've burned the memory into my brain or that I remembered the whole movie or that I wasn't willing to give it another go.

You apparently believe that I must hate the movie with a burning passion and zealotry and with a closed mind and have been stewing about it all these years. I've no idea where you got any of these notions from. I rewatched it perfectly willing to enjoy myself, but the fact is I didn't. Just because I don't buy into your apparent Lucas hagiography doesn't mean that I spend my time writing screeds about it. The last few months is probably the first time I've thought much about Star Wars in a decade.

[Madiel]

As for the notion that I had "better watch movies [my] taste/mindset is better suited for"... well, how am I supposed to know which ones those are if no-one ever tells me their opinion of a movie they've seen? And movie critics are valueless?

See? You've just told me that I should find out about movies before seeing them, so that they align with my tastes, after spending all this time arguing how bad it is for anyone to express their opinion about a movie they've seen unless it's a good opinion. Which means all anyone hears is good opinions, which means there's no way to distinguish between films.

You can't have it both ways - either people must form their own opinion about each movie (only achievable by watching it), in which case it makes no sense to tell me to pick and choose before watching, or there is validity to letting other people know what you thought of a movie and thereby helping to guide their choices about what to watch.

Also, apparently my taste/mindset is fairly well suited for some movies that a bloke named George Lucas made. There's one called The Empire Strikes Back that I particular enjoyed, but a few of the others were also pretty good.

The problem with your original red-inked complaint is that you confuse several different kinds of negative opinion. You confuse unfair generalisations with specific dislikes, and you confuse subjective opinions with denial of facts. You also confuse negative opinion stemming from actual experience with avoidance. All of these are lumped together in your post.

[Florestan]

I have enjoyed the first Star Wars episodes big time when I was a child. It´s been years decades since I have not cared for, nor thought about, them.

Nowadays, a good friend of mine insists that we go see the latest installment --- and the sole reason I will eventually and surely acquiesce is to experience it in 3-D. I couldn´t care less for the action. 

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

To me, all Star Wars is equally enjoyable. I love them all the same, and that's about as much as the majority of opinions of episode I.

[Karl Henning]

I was talking about people who have been moaning about Jar Jar for 16 years.

Well, your position is that Lucas is a supernal genius. And Jar Jar is a steaming turd of an artistic misstep.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Jar Jar Binks?

http://youtu.be/8yy3q9f84EA

Just sayin'

[Monsieur Croche]

Jar Jar Binks?

http://youtu.be/8yy3q9f84EA

Just sayin'

A-yep, aka 'Hey, Mon,' to his friends.

[71 dB]

I watched it 3 months ago because all 6 existing episodes were on television over 6 weekends, in sequence.

Do you watch movies you know you don't like just because they are on television? Talk about being enslaved by the magic box!

Or maybe you do enjoy the movies more than you are willing to admit yourself? Even that happens sometimes.

As for knowing for 16 years I don't like it... see, you are projecting this notion that everybody else thinks constantly about the Stars Wars movies. I saw it... well, I think it was shortly after it came out because of the circumstances that I can recall. I didn't like it. That doesn't mean that I've burned the memory into my brain or that I remembered the whole movie or that I wasn't willing to give it another go.

So now you have seen it twice? I don't know how many times I have seen The Phantom Menace. I saw it 4 times in the movie theatre in 1999 + once the 3D conversion in 2012. I have watched it several time also on DVD and Blu-ray. A dozen times perhaps?

I get that YOU didn't constantly think about the movie all these years, but there seems to be people who do moan about it constantly.

You apparently believe that I must hate the movie with a burning passion and zealotry and with a closed mind and have been stewing about it all these years.

Actually I don't believe that. You don't seem fanatic about it.

I've no idea where you got any of these notions from. I rewatched it perfectly willing to enjoy myself, but the fact is I didn't. Just because I don't buy into your apparent Lucas hagiography doesn't mean that I spend my time writing screeds about it. The last few months is probably the first time I've thought much about Star Wars in a decade.

Okay.

As for the notion that I had "better watch movies [my] taste/mindset is better suited for"... well, how am I supposed to know which ones those are if no-one ever tells me their opinion of a movie they've seen? And movie critics are valueless?

Well, you have to see a movie to really know. Just as you need to taste food to know whether you like it or not. Watching a movie (for the first time) is a calculated risk to me. I love all Spielberg movies, so the statistical probability for liking the next one is about 100 %. I don't enjoy much the movies of Tarantino (except 'Jackie Brown', which I consider a good movie + parts of 'Pulp Fiction' work for me), so watching a new Tarantino movie is risky for me. The opinions of other people or movie critics are pretty valueless to me because the absolute value of the correlation to my own opinions is so small. Sometimes critics hate the movies I love, sometimes I share their opinion.

One of my friends once said movie critics have the most miserable profession: They must watch tons of movies they hate. 

See? You've just told me that I should find out about movies before seeing them, so that they align with my tastes, after spending all this time arguing how bad it is for anyone to express their opinion about a movie they've seen unless it's a good opinion. Which means all anyone hears is good opinions, which means there's no way to distinguish between films.

I try to figure out whether a movie is worth watching. Sometimes I watch a bad movie on purpose (on television). People are entitled to express negative opinions, but I wonder why they bother. I rather talk about movies I like. Some movies are perhaps bad for real, but most of the time we don't enjoy a particular movie because:

- Our taste in movies is too limited.
- Our attitude is wrong.
- Our expectations are wrong.
- We misunderstand the movie.
- Wrong focus group.

So, what's the point in calling movie X crap online (because I misunderstood the movie or my expectations were wrong etc.) making the fans of that movie angry? In a way a movie is "good enough" if there's at least one person enjoying it.

You can't have it both ways - either people must form their own opinion about each movie (only achievable by watching it), in which case it makes no sense to tell me to pick and choose before watching, or there is validity to letting other people know what you thought of a movie and thereby helping to guide their choices about what to watch.

Well, I have found my way and it seems to work. I may sample 10 minutes a movie on television and if it looks "promising", I may watch it next time it's on tv. I have favorite directors, whose movies work for me. I don't need help from others and often the help is only confusing, because people have so different tastes. I can't understand why some people hate Jar Jar. Well, actually I can understand how a really narrow-minded person could hate Jar Jar, but if you are an open-minded person, seeing the funny aspect of the character shouldn't be hard. For me it's like watching Laurel and Hardy. Who hates Laurel and Hardy?

Also, apparently my taste/mindset is fairly well suited for some movies that a bloke named George Lucas made. There's one called The Empire Strikes Back that I particular enjoyed, but a few of the others were also pretty good.

Your taste/mindset is partially suited while my taste/mindset is perfectly suited. It's that simple.

The problem with your original red-inked complaint is that you confuse several different kinds of negative opinion. You confuse unfair generalisations with specific dislikes, and you confuse subjective opinions with denial of facts. You also confuse negative opinion stemming from actual experience with avoidance. All of these are lumped together in your post.

You can't deny that I feel sick when I read what people write online. It doesn't matter if I confuse things.