Haydn's Haus

[Brian]

George - I hadn't always taken you for a HIPster, so welcome to the club? Either way, if you're interested in the Haydn symphonies, the George Szell 4CD box is mandatory, desert-island-level stuff. One of my favorite purchases ever, and on Amazon MP for $9:

[asin]B003TUG3UO[/asin]

EDIT: Listening to #93 again now.

[George]

George - I hadn't always taken you for a HIPster, so welcome to the club? Either way, if you're interested in the Haydn symphonies, the George Szell 4CD box is mandatory, desert-island-level stuff. One of my favorite purchases ever, and on Amazon MP for $9:

[asin]B003TUG3UO[/asin]

EDIT: Listening to #93 again now.

Thanks, Brian. I have all but 88 and 104 from that set, on CDs released earlier. And I am saving my dough for the aforementioned Decca set.

I am neither pro-HIP nor an anti-HIP. My rule is this - I listen to something and if I enjoy it, if it pleases my ears, I buy it. The samples I could find from the new Decca set of the Hogwood recordings sound good to me.

[Jo498]

The new compilation is impossible to beat for price and for having everything together in good to great interpretations.

Even if someone prefers Goodman in the early pieces there are no available HIP recordings for most of the 50s/60s numbers (Solomons recorded some but not all and few have been on CD). And as Goodman's are available as singles at midprice someone who is really fond of the early ones or the 70-78 can easily try some of Goodman's in addition to the box.

But I felt obliged to point out that not everyone thinks that Hogwood's are completely convincing throughout and the probably appropriate but smallish sound of some of them might take some listeners aback at first.

[calyptorhynchus]

Hi Gurn

I think a few hundred pages ago ( ) you were saying that there were two Haydn Symphonies that have never been recorded on PI. Does this the Decca box set now complete the PI 107?

[Jo498]

The recently recorded 79 and 81 (dir. Dantone) are the first recordings of these pieces on historic instruments.

("A" and "B" (or 107 and 108) are in on of the early Hogwood volumes, but they are probably also the only HIP recordings. But Gurn will know those details or what other options exist. This could actually be a nice task: Try to get as far as possible with HIP recordings OUTSIDE that box.)

[Madiel]

Just so we get this straight... are we saying that the new box has all the Hogwood in the Oiseau-Lyre box I've been contemplating, and the recordings that previously were only on a BBC music magazine?

[Jo498]

It has the 76+77 from BBC but it does NOT have the complete L'oiseau lyre because the works on discs 11-15 are with Brüggen in the new box (and were recorded by Hogwood). I also think Hogwood's #94 is not doubled and should be included in the older Hogwood set. (Hogwood had two single discs with 94/96 and 100/104 in addition to the 3-disc-boxes.) But I would not hesitate getting the new set.

[kishnevi]

Ideally, one should get both the Hogwood and Bruggen boxes.... But the Bruggen is effectively unobtainable, at least on Amazon US.  There is one copy of the older issue offered for $130US.  The 2009 issue, the one I got last year,is not available at all.

I did just now finally bite the bullet and ordered a used copy of Hogwood/BBC for $29.50 plus shipping. I never order used copies online, never pay that much for a single CD.... But I will have all the Hogwood, at least.

Now I suppose I need to start getting the Solomons recordings, as much as they are available.

[Jo498]

I have not heard the Hogwood Sturm&Drang which is replaced by Brüggen's in the new box. But these are the works where we have far more alternatives than for anything else before 82, so I doubt that Hogwood is as essential here as in the "60s" numbers.

For some that new box might be worth it just to get the Brüggen and the Hogwood BBC because both are so hard to get, reagardless of doubling some of the Hogwood. As I have ca. 2/3 of that set already, I am not one of those but I'D probably be tempted in other circumstances although I am not quite as fond of the Hogwood recordings I have as some others, so this might be another factor. I also still hope to get the one Vol. of the old Hogwood issue I want for a decent price some time...

[Gurn Blanston]

The new compilation is impossible to beat for price and for having everything together in good to great interpretations.

Even if someone prefers Goodman in the early pieces there are no available HIP recordings for most of the 50s/60s numbers (Solomons recorded some but not all and few have been on CD). And as Goodman's are available as singles at midprice someone who is really fond of the early ones or the 70-78 can easily try some of Goodman's in addition to the box.

But I felt obliged to point out that not everyone thinks that Hogwood's are completely convincing throughout and the probably appropriate but smallish sound of some of them might take some listeners aback at first.

Agreed on all points. My personal opinion is that the sound of the Hogwood early symphonies is a lot fuller than I thought it would be before I ever heard it. I knew it was done with an authentic-sized orchestra and I was anticipation much skimpier, so what is a negative surprise for some was a positive one for me!   

[Gurn Blanston]

Hi Gurn

I think a few hundred pages ago ( ) you were saying that there were two Haydn Symphonies that have never been recorded on PI. Does this the Decca box set now complete the PI 107?

Yes it does, there are now no known symphonies which are not recorded on period instruments. I am very pleased with the Dantone, they do a very nice job! 

[Gurn Blanston]

The recently recorded 79 and 81 (dir. Dantone) are the first recordings of these pieces on historic instruments.

("A" and "B" (or 107 and 108) are in on of the early Hogwood volumes, but they are probably also the only HIP recordings. But Gurn will know those details or what other options exist. This could actually be a nice task: Try to get as far as possible with HIP recordings OUTSIDE that box.)

It IS  a nice task. I think I have them all, but every now and again one will pop up and surprise me, like 'where did THAT come from?'!  Sort of like the brilliant Opus 33 you pointed me to recently.

I will have to check when I get home because I don't want to err here, but I am pretty sure you are right, Hogwood IS the only PI recording of A & B. Also there are 2 (IIRC) symphonies in the 50's which they did both versions of. There are a lot of combinations one can look for, such as with and without trumpets and timpani or with or without the slow introduction, or the bassoons.

Surprisingly, they are virtually all out there and make for an interesting challenge.

[Karl Henning]

Yes it does, there are now no known symphonies which are not recorded on period instruments. I am very pleased with the Dantone, they do a very nice job! 

A landmark!

[Gurn Blanston]

It has the 76+77 from BBC but it does NOT have the complete L'oiseau lyre because the works on discs 11-15 are with Brüggen in the new box (and were recorded by Hogwood). I also think Hogwood's #94 is not doubled and should be included in the older Hogwood set. (Hogwood had two single discs with 94/96 and 100/104 in addition to the 3-disc-boxes.) But I would not hesitate getting the new set.

And just to point it out; the BC disk with 76 & 77 was actually supposed to be Disk 1 of Volume 11 (each original volume was 3 disks). They had that one in the can before Decca pulled the plug. If they had just been allowed to finish that volume, this whole question of 76-81 would have been avoided and they would have been up to the Paris Symphonies, which there are a dozen to choose from. Very short-sighted on Decca's part, as they stuck through the obscurities, then bailed out when they got up to the certain money-makers. Fools!

[Gurn Blanston]

Brüggen's Sturm und Drang symphonies:

[/URL]

Ideally, one should get both the Hogwood and Bruggen boxes.... But the Bruggen is effectively unobtainable, at least on Amazon US.  There is one copy of the older issue offered for $130US.  The 2009 issue, the one I got last year,is not available at all.

I did just now finally bite the bullet and ordered a used copy of Hogwood/BBC for $29.50 plus shipping. I never order used copies online, never pay that much for a single CD.... But I will have all the Hogwood, at least.

Now I suppose I need to start getting the Solomons recordings, as much as they are available.

I got the Brüggen about in 2011, it was going for $125 then and I had a number of emails back and forth with the seller and ended up getting it for $75. I doubt it could be had for that today!! But it has been re-released at least twice, once in that pretty purple box of all his Haydn, then again after he died. So it can be had, but this would be the easiest and most economical way right now.

Unbelievable how the BBC Hogwood has shot up. I been telling people to buy it if they wanted it, and it went up even faster than I thought it would. I paid $7 brand new...   

There are 2 chubby boxes, a 2 disk and 3 disk set of Solomons. You would need both of those. Then, there is a single that has 45 & 48, IIRC, this is the only disk with 48 on it. Then, The Haydn House has the other 11 disks as CD-R's. Don't be proud it is the only way you will ever get them unless the world turns on its side. They are excellent quality. I ripped them to FLAC anyway and have them archived so if the disks die, I have backup. That will make all the Solomons for you.

[kishnevi]

Brüggen's Sturm und Drang symphonies:

[/URL]

I got the Brüggen about in 2011, it was going for $125 then and I had a number of emails back and forth with the seller and ended up getting it for $75. I doubt it could be had for that today!! But it has been re-released at least twice, once in that pretty purple box of all his Haydn, then again after he died. So it can be had, but this would be the easiest and most economical way right now.

Unbelievable how the BBC Hogwood has shot up. I been telling people to buy it if they wanted it, and it went up even faster than I thought it would. I paid $7 brand new...   

There are 2 chubby boxes, a 2 disk and 3 disk set of Solomons. You would need both of those. Then, there is a single that has 45 & 48, IIRC, this is the only disk with 48 on it. Then, The Haydn House has the other 11 disks as CD-R's. Don't be proud it is the only way you will ever get them unless the world turns on its side. They are excellent quality. I ripped them to FLAC anyway and have them archived so if the disks die, I have backup. That will make all the Solomons for you.

Taking notes...
This is the Bruggen I have
[asin]B00O1A8YCG[/asin]
Amazon US says it is "currently unavailable".  I did not look on the other Amazons.

[Gurn Blanston]

Taking notes...
This is the Bruggen I have
[asin]B00O1A8YCG[/asin]
Amazon US says it is "currently unavailable".  I did not look on the other Amazons.

Yes, yours is the one they released, like, a week after he died! It is pretty complete, something like 14 disks? Other than that one box set of mine, I have all singles! Well, "Paris" is a double, I guess. Right now, I have to find out about Brüggen having a BBC disk, if I understand Jo's post correctly. Damn, always something!

This is the other, original collected edition. I never got it because even back then it was $150 if you could find it.

[Jo498]

I have the one with the shadow & umbrella.
It says "2002" as release date of that compilation on the box but I must have bought it around 2011 or so and very cheap, it was some cutout sale, I don't think I paid more than 25 EUR. As I had the two twofers with the London set I would not have bought it other than very cheap. (So with selling the two London twofers later I probably paid almost nothing...)
If I should find the single Hogwood disc wihth 76+77 for abou EUR 10 or less, I'll grab, but I am not going to pay serious money (I am quite happy with Goodman and Fischer in these works).

The cheapest way would probably be for me to buy the new box and try to sell the Brüggen and the 3 Hogwood Vols. I own. With a little luck I might end up making a profit, if someone really pays 100 EUR for the Brüggen Box!

But despite their bulk I like the design of the original 3-disc-boxes and I do not really like huge boxes. I am also, probably totally unjustified, a little paranoid about those new many-disc-boxes being lower quality and as it could be years before I listened to all the discs, I might be stuck with faulty discs or so... and I irrationally like having a box I bought for EUR 25 or so now being offered used for >120 and still keeping it...

[Gurn Blanston]

I have the one with the shadow & umbrella.
It says "2002" as release date of that compilation on the box but I must have bought it around 2011 or so and very cheap, it was some cutout sale, I don't think I paid more than 25 EUR. As I had the two twofers with the London set I would not have bought it other than very cheap. (So with selling the two London twofers later I probably paid almost nothing...)
If I should find the single Hogwood disc wihth 76+77 for abou EUR 10 or less, I'll grab, but I am not going to pay serious money (I am quite happy with Goodman and Fischer in these works).

The cheapest way would probably be for me to buy the new box and try to sell the Brüggen and the 3 Hogwood Vols. I own. With a little luck I might end up making a profit, if someone really pays 100 EUR for the Brüggen Box!

But despite their bulk I like the design of the original 3-disc-boxes and I do not really like huge boxes. I am also, probably totally unjustified, a little paranoid about those new many-disc-boxes being lower quality and as it could be years before I listened to all the discs, I might be stuck with faulty discs or so... and I irrationally like having a box I bought for EUR 25 or so now being offered used for >120 and still keeping it...

Yes, I have no intention of getting rid of my 10, 3 disk boxes. I am very fond of them and could never possibly get back what I have in them anyway. Along with the other 3 singles, it is a nice group.

You mentioned  earlier a Brüggen BBC disk. What's the story on that? Why have I never seen it for sale, even now, when I am looking for it?

[Jo498]

No, I must have meant the Hogwood BBC, sorry, just a mistake on my part.
I am not aware of any odd or rare Haydn with Brüggen.
(There is a Harnoncourt/Concentus DVD with the Oxford symphony and vocal music with Bartoli, that's the only somewhat obscure Haydn recording I have...)