Pessimism

[relm1]

ok we can do so, much of the music of Mahler, Shostakovich and Schnittke.

Interestingly, I don't find Mahler generally pessimistic.  Even his large scale late works like the Symphony No. 9 or Das Lied von der Erde have drama and tragedy but are ultimately life affirming.  ...That in the face of an existential threat, there is a sense of consoling or almost hopefulness about the peace one finds after tragedy.  Isn't this the opposite of pessimism? 

[Jo498]

Only that 31/2 can be considered a rare example of Beethoven's pessimism, if you're so inclined.

op.31/2 is a rather enigmatic piece. I like it a lot (the finale somewhat less, though) but I am not sure if there is anything about the programmatic allusions. The finale might just be the eternal waves of the sea going up and down or it might be something pessimist or just Fuer Elise on speed...

[Luke]

Schnittke's beautiful but bleak Penitential Psalms have always struck me like being in a wind tunnel of pessimism and misery. But they also remind me of the lamenting policemen in Python's 'funniest joke in the world' sketch, which lessens the blow...

[Karl Henning]

"Zat's not funny!"

[vandermolen]

Third and final movement of Bruckner's 9th. Maybe not so much pessimistic, but I find the ending so incredibly sad.

+1

[Jo498]

Of course the adagio was never supposed to end Bruckner's 9th...

[(poco) Sforzando]

Having just spent an hour at my home piano going through some of Shosty op. 87, I would say parts of that are pretty bleak, like the E minor. But then again, some other parts are almost romantic (F# major prelude), quirkily fun (Db major prelude), or grimly defiant (the huge D minor fugue). And even when the music itself is grim, it is great fun for the pianist to play.

[Drasko]

Page three and just one mention of Allan Pettersson! What would paulb say

http://www.amazon.com/gp/profile/A2303QX5EZRUS2?ref_=glimp_1rv_pp

[Florestan]

Actually, please define pessimism in music! 

[(poco) Sforzando]

Actually, please define pessimism in music! 

The opposite of optimism.

[Mandryka]

Actually, please define pessimism in music! 

Here's my shot.

No consolation, no comfort. For this reason you can't have pessimistic romantic music.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Here's my shot.

No consolation, no comfort. For this reason you can't have pessimistic romantic music.

So the ending of Tchaikovsky 6 is neither pessimistic nor romantic?

[Mandryka]

So the ending of Tchaikovsky 6 is neither pessimistic nor romantic?

Are you suggesting a reductio ad absurdum? Tchaikovsky 6  is no more romantic than Froberger's Tombeau for Blancrocher. Der.

[Florestan]

Here's my shot.

No consolation, no comfort. For this reason you can't have pessimistic romantic music.

Well, for this reason you can´t have pessimistic music at all. 

[Mandryka]

Well, for this reason you can´t have pessimistic music at all. 

No, for this reason you can't have truthful romantic music.

[Florestan]

The opposite of optimism.

Please define optimism! (and don´t you dare say it´s the opposite of pessimism...  )

So the ending of Tchaikovsky 6 is neither pessimistic nor romantic?

Romantic, yes... pessimistic, well, it depends... for Tchaikovsky it might very well have been... for me, the very fact that a mere mortal could have written such music is a proof that there is God and the hope an afterlife...

[Florestan]

No, for this reason you can't have truthful romantic music.

Please define truthful Romantic music.

[amw]

No consolation, no comfort. For this reason you can't have pessimistic romantic music.

It's theoretically possible within the style, more so than with classicism. See e.g. Brahms Op. 118/6, Liszt Nuages gris, etc

[Mandryka]

It's theoretically possible within the style, more so than with classicism. See e.g. Brahms Op. 118/6, Liszt Nuages gris, etc

Ah, you see, you think romanticism is a musical style. I think it's a theory about the meaning of life.

[Mandryka]

Please define truthful Romantic music.

Truthful = says of what is that it is, says of what is not that it is not.
Romantic  = that which seeks to move the soul causing love of the world , of humanity and of God
Music = ah, that one's harder