What Opera Are You Listening to Now?

[knight66]

I am currently listening to a live Trovatore, Karajan 1962, Price, Corelli. So far, first scene with Zaccaria and the men was bumpy, none of them kept to the beat. A bit of an amateur sounding mess from the stage. Karajan's pacing was quite fast, but not hectically so. Thank goodness, now Price is doing her thing.

MIke

EDIT: Things have certainly hotted up, Simionato is stupendous, really living the drama. Corelli is indulgent but exciting. I can feel the crackling excitement.

It turned into quite a performance, dramatic and thrilling with great voices doing their stuff. But the chorus should have had their pay docked.

[André]

From the main thread:

This is the first, original cd issue of this well-known recording. Subsequent reissues (3 if I count well) corrected what is an unforgivable editing idiocy: cutting the second act less than 5 minutes before the end, spilling over the 3rd disc. All 3 discs clock in around 72 minutes, so there was ample time to fit the rest of the act on the second cd. On the newer issues timings are 72, 77 and 68 minutes, with Act ends in their proper places.

Anyhow, as to the performance, I find it admirable for the conducting, playing and excellent engineering. None of the sung roles make it to the top rung, though. Thomas and Grümmer are both admirable and tasteful, but I looked in vain for a trace of the dramatic. Vocally they do not displace favourites such as Konya, Domingo, Steber or Janowitz. In a few places I thought someone should have given a Ricola to Thomas before opening up his mic.

King Henry is very well sung and portrayed by the veteran, Gottlob Frick. On the Warner sets, the back cover blurb commends Fischer-Dieskau and Ludwig for « subtly bringing new dimensions to the roles of the two villains of the piece». Well, I'm not sure what to make of that new found subtlety. While DFD rages over his lost honour perfunctorily, the voice is so beautiful that it's hard to envision him as the true scumbag he is supposed to portray. Similarly, Ludwig has no trouble singing beautiflly and forcefully, but where is the venom, the spite, the demonic rage of this hellish witch ? She is more believable when pretending to Elsa that she is a victim than when erupting in vengeful anger. No match for the real giants in this role, Varnay and Gorr.

All in all, a superb phonographic production that could have been markedly better if the singing had been one size larger and the characterization more effective.

[knight66]

Interesting Andre, I have long wondered what this set was like. I have the Kubelik and Solti sets. The Kubelik feels more idiomatic and it has Janowitz, King is fine too. That is the one I usually gravitate towards, but if I need a Grand Jessye fix, then the other set certainly serves it up.

Mike

[anothername]

Such a lavish cast, stupendous.

[Tsaraslondon]

I am currently listening to a live Trovatore, Karajan 1962, Price, Corelli. So far, first scene with Zaccaria and the men was bumpy, none of them kept to the beat. A bit of an amateur sounding mess from the stage. Karajan's pacing was quite fast, but not hectically so. Thank goodness, now Price is doing her thing.

MIke

EDIT: Things have certainly hotted up, Simionato is stupendous, really living the drama. Corelli is indulgent but exciting. I can feel the crackling excitement.

It turned into quite a performance, dramatic and thrilling with great voices doing their stuff. But the chorus should have had their pay docked.

I know this performance, and, though it is undeniably exciting, I've often thought it a bit of a mess, with occasional discrepancies between stage and pit.

Compare that to Karajan's first studio set with Callas, which I've now come to think of as one of Karajan's very best studio opera sets. But if Callas is the star vocalist, then Karajan is the second star of the recording. I'd even go so far as to say this is one of his very best opera recordings. His conducting is thrilling and one is constantly amazed at the many felicities he brings out in the orchestral colour. His pacing is brilliant, rhythms always alert and beautifully sprung, but suitably spacious and long-breathed in Leonora's glorious arias. Nor does he shy away from the score's occasional rude vigour. It is a considerable achievement. Di Stefano is no Corelli, his voice no dout a notch too small for the role of Manrico, but he just about pulls it off, nevertheless, and Barbieri is almost Simionato's equal.

[Tsaraslondon]

From the main thread:

Anyhow, as to the performance, I find it admirable for the conducting, playing and excellent engineering. None of the sung roles make it to the top rung, though. Thomas and Grümmer are both admirable and tasteful, but I looked in vain for a trace of the dramatic. Vocally they do not displace favourites such as Konya, Domingo, Steber or Janowitz. In a few places I thought someone should have given a Ricola to Thomas before opening up his mic.

Funnily enough I find more drama, as well as seamlessly beautiful singing, in Grümmer's Elsa, than in Janowitz's disembodied purity. Ludwig's Ortrud I also find eminently satisfying, though she is a mite more thrilling in the duet she recorded with Schwarzkopf.

[Tsaraslondon]

I think this is the only opera set I have conducted by Solti, who has never been a favourite of mine. I bought it chiefly for Helga Dernesch's radiant Elisabeth, but it has other virtues, not least Ludwig's Venus and Victor Braun's Wolfram, and I think this one of Kollo's best recorded roles.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

I think this is the only opera set I have conducted by Solti, who has never been a favourite of mine. I bought it chiefly for Helga Dernesch's radiant Elisabeth, but it has other virtues, not least Ludwig's Venus and Victor Braun's Wolfram, and I think this one of Kollo's best recorded roles.

That was the first Tannhäuser I ever heard and still a great favorite of mine. I happen to be a Solti fanboy.  Kollo does a fine Tannhäuser (or should I say Heinrich) in this one but to be honest, I liked more his Tristan performances, especially on Kleiber 1982 recording. Although this may also have something to do with the fact that I find Heinrich among the least interesting Wagner lead roles.

[knight66]

I think this is the only opera set I have conducted by Solti, who has never been a favourite of mine. I bought it chiefly for Helga Dernesch's radiant Elisabeth, but it has other virtues, not least Ludwig's Venus and Victor Braun's Wolfram, and I think this one of Kollo's best recorded roles.

This is my favourite Tannhauser, partly because I prefer the Paris version, but also for the qualities you point out and the excellent sound.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

Hickox's superb version of the two act Billy Budd is wonderfully cast from top to bottom. I find it even more compelling than Britten's own version, and the Chandos recording is spectacular.

[kishnevi]

Hickox's superb version of the two act Billy Budd is wonderfully cast from top to bottom. I find it even more compelling than Britten's own version, and the Chandos recording is spectacular.

1) Have you ever heard the Virgin (now, I presume, Erato) recording with Bostridge as the Captain?

2) Referring back to your Solti comment, try his Parsifal and Marriage of Figaro recordings.

[Karl Henning]

Relieved to see you active, Jeffrey!

[Tsaraslondon]

1) Have you ever heard the Virgin (now, I presume, Erato) recording with Bostridge as the Captain?

2) Referring back to your Solti comment, try his Parsifal and Marriage of Figaro recordings.

1) I haven't heard the recording with Bostridge, but I'm not really a fan. I find him somewhat effete.

2) I prefer Karajan's Parsifal, though, by all accounts, I really should listen to Knappertsbusch, and the Figaro has some great singers (maybe even the best cast on record), but here too I prefer Krips or Giulini.

[knight66]

I went through Amazon 2nd hand last night and ordered Giulini's Figaro, Don Carlo and Rigoletto: £14 plus postage.

For some reason, although I have long enjoyed his Don Giovanni, I never tried the Figaro. I have lots of versions of all three operas. I do rate the Solti Figaro highly, but I know your feelings on him.

For Parsifal, I suggest the Kubelik which is exceptional. I have and very much like the Karajan one, but it is an opera that yields to different conductors.

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

I went through Amazon 2nd hand last night and ordered Giulini's Figaro, Don Carlo and Rigoletto: £14 plus postage.

For some reason, although I have long enjoyed his Don Giovanni, I never tried the Figaro. I have lots of versions of all three operas. I do rate the Solti Figaro highly, but I know your feelings on him.

For Parsifal, I suggest the Kubelik which is exceptional. I have and very much like the Karajan one, but it is an opera that yields to different conductors.

Mike

The Giulini Figaro isn't as universally admired as his Don Giovanni, but it's always been a firm favourite with me. There's a good sprinkling of Italians (or Italian speakers) in the cast, which means the words get their due, and the cast is at least the equal of Solti's. It's not note complete, mind you (no arias for Marcelline and Basilio), which might bother some more than it bothers me.

Giulini's Don Carlo is, on balance I think, still the best recording of the opera on disc. It's one of my favourite Verdi operas, and I have three recordings (Giulini, Karajan and Abbado) though essentially what I have is three different operas; the five act Italian version, the four act Italian version and the five act French version with appendices. I reviewed the three sets on my blog.  https://tsaraslondon.wordpress.com/2017/04/09/verdis-don-carlos-a-comparison-of-three-different-recordings/

His Rigoletto is also excellent, but I don't think it eclipses the old Serafin with Callas and Gobbi which, for all the cuts and ancient modern sound still leads the field. I review that  recording too https://tsaraslondon.wordpress.com/2017/01/08/rigoletto/.

Incidentally, I enjoy his Trovatore too, but mostly for the cast. Giulini's speeds tend to be a little ponderous, especially when one is used to Karajan's wonderfully alert and sprung rhythms on his first recording with Callas.

[knight66]

Ha, how much time do we have here? So much I could write. Don Carlo is my favourite Verdi and I am frankly happy there are so many editions of the score. For the French version I have Pappano with Alagna. Lots of drama and a full score including the Fontainebleau scene, it has a very good cast. I do however prefer it in Italian.

I have the EMI Karajan and a live Karajan Vienna one, the latter is so heavily cut, I can't recommend it. The Giulini ROH one with Vickers, Gobbi and Christoff is excellent, I don't really enjoy Brouwenstijn, her voice does not sound centred to me, but I know she was much admired. This is however one of my indispensible sets. Christoff is my favourite Philip, for me no one comes close.

Solti has a terrific line-up, but I know you would not use his opera sets even as door stoppers.

Santini has a good cast, though Stella is a dramatic cypher, also I don't find his conducting very inspiring. Votto is worth hearing to catch Cerquetti at her considerable best and Barbieri, Siepi and Bastanini. The sound is...OK.

But my favourite set, it ought not to be as it only has four acts, is a live Horst Stein from Vienna 1970. It is fairly swift, he pushes the drama onwards. Corelli, Janowitz, Waechter, Ghiaurov and Verrett. Terrificly exciting, Verrett completely stops the show. If you can find this one, I think you would enjoy it. As you know I am a Janowitz enthusiast, not ultra dramatic, but the beauty of her singing is remarkable. Corelli is his usual thrilling and engaged self and the confrontation between Ghiarov and Talvela is hair-raising.

I did have Haitink, wonderful singing, but I could not stand the pacing, it is inert and that completely ruins the efforts of the singers, I dumped it.

I am looking forward to the Giulini, though I have never much liked Domingo, which is the reason I have not previously bought it. I have quite a bit of Domingo, you can't avoid him, and I have the Giulini Trovatore which I get on well with despite the slow-burn. What a group of singers he collected there. I agree, the Karajan with Callas is as good as it gets.

On Rigoletto, I must have half a dozen or so, my top recommendation is the old CallasGobbi one, but I retain a lot of affection for a Molinari Pradelli live set. He is an underrated conductor I think. Capecci is the Rigoletto, superb, dramatic and dark, there is Tucker plus D'Angelo, Pirazzini and Sardi are the other main singers. Well worth a listen away from the usual main recommendations. D'Angelo has a very light voice, girlish, accurate but a narrow colour palate.

Mike

[knight66]

Tsaraslondon, About six months ago I spent an afternoon reading right through your blog and enjoyed it enormously. I recommend it here to folk with even a passing interest in Callas, though as this link shows, other singers get their turn.

^{https://tsaraslondon.wordpress.com/2017/04/09/verdis-don-carlos-a-comparison-of-three-different-recordings/}


Like you, that Karajan Don Carlo soundworld bugs me. I mentioned on the current Karajan thread this phase of his where he sank the voices into the orchestral textures. I think this set is the worst example of it. It does however have its considerable compensations. I also agree re the blandness of Domingo in many of the EMI sets that he appeared in almost monthly. Having brought mysef up on Vickers, Bjoerling and Tucker, Domingo seemed faceless to me. And I also have never really connected with his voice, especially when I could have Pavarotti's golden tones and his real relishing of the Italian language. Domingo is by far the more enduring and versatile artist, I admire him more thn enjoy him. Mind you, I really wish he would just leave the stage. There are plentry of real baritones who need the the work. It is about time he buggered off.

After posting the Don Carlo list above, I have been listening to that Rigoletto with Capecci, was it really live? Is the sound quality actually safe to recommend? Putting it on reassured me that the sound quality is really first rate for its time, it sounds like studio mix except for the lovely way the voices ring out into the theatre. I was worried I might have misslead you through faulty memory. It is like putting on an old favourite pullover, I bought the set on LP when I was about 14, so it has rather imprinted itself on my brain. But I believe it stands up very well if you like the soprano's rather monochrome singing.

Mike

Edit, Despite the claim on the disc covers that it is live, I refused to believe it. Having now read up on the set, I can confirm it is a studio version issued at one point by Phillips.

[Tsaraslondon]

Thanks for the recommendations, Mike. I have found both the Stein Don Carlo and the live Molinari-Pradelli Rigoletto on Spotify and have saved them both for later listening.

I can't really imagine Janowitz in Verdi. She is a singer I have equivocal feelings about. The voice is indeed beautiful, but I find her performances can sometimes seem emotionally tepid. She has  a sort of disembodied purity that I wouldn't have thought suited Verdi. It should make for interesting listening.

[kishnevi]

1) I haven't heard the recording with Bostridge, but I'm not really a fan. I find him somewhat effete.

2) I prefer Karajan's Parsifal, though, by all accounts, I really should listen to Knappertsbusch, and the Figaro has some great singers (maybe even the best cast on record), but here too I prefer Krips or Giulini.

Fair point about Bostridge, although I think it doesn't hurt him in his Captain Fairfax performance.

Re: Knappertsbusch Parsifal. You need to hear him at some point.  I have his 1951 performance on Naxos (I know there are a few different incarnations), and the later "commercial" performance on Philips/Decca. I prefer the 1951 one. There also seem to be a couple other live at Bayreuth  performances from other years running around but I've never heard them.

[kishnevi]

I have the Guilini and Muti recordings of Don Carlo. The latter has Pavarotti, and I think Domingo clearly wins that particular head-to-head competition.