The unimportant news thread

[jochanaan]

A silver lining in every cloud.

And vice versa.

Photographing in public transportation or cities in the UK or US is definitely an excellent way to get into trouble these days, if there's anything suggesting that you're not a tourist.
That is definitely weird.

Unless you're whatever department puts up those surveillance cameras in buses and trains...

[North Star]

And vice versa.

Even in a golden cloud, there is a silver lining

Unless you're whatever department puts up those surveillance cameras in buses and trains...

True.

[ibanezmonster]

https://www.youtube.com/v/b1XGPvbWn0A

So apparently this video has gotten 20 million views in 2 days. This is what it has come down to, apparently. A big reason why I don't say hi to women in public.

[Ken B]

https://www.youtube.com/v/b1XGPvbWn0A

So apparently this video has gotten 20 million views in 2 days. This is what it has come down to, apparently. A big reason why I don't say hi to women in public.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8aeb78deb2/10-hours-of-walking-in-nyc-as-a-man


Could people SEE the camera?

[kishnevi]

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8aeb78deb2/10-hours-of-walking-in-nyc-as-a-man


Could people SEE the camera?

According to what I have read, the camera was pointing out of the backpack of her accomplice who was walking in front.

People have started to notice that they managed to include no white men in thus gallery of  rudeness.

[Ken B]

According to what I have read, the camera was pointing out of the backpack of her accomplice who was walking in front.

People have started to notice that they managed to include no white men in thus gallery of  rudeness.

I have seen that remarked upon. I noticed it myself. I think I draw different conclusions. They didn't edit out the whites, there just weren't many. Cultural attitudes differ, and that affects what is seen as rude or intrusive in public. What they put on display is I bet not seen or intended as rude in the milieu in which it happened, and some of the reactions seemed to me to her manner, which was I think many would find superior and even rude. (and they are right, she is marching with malice aforethought as it were, not merely getting from A to B. They pick up on the fact she is contemptuous of them.) The snooty white woman refusing to acknowledge by a glance or gesture even a pedestrian she almost collides with. Many of the reactions I saw looked like a response to that.

which gives this a slightly hinky  "why can't they be more like us?" feel.

Update. Sentence structure meltdown. Here's the gist. Snooty white woman exuding contempt strides through neighborhoods. Blacks and Hispanics, whose public standards of decorum differ from those of whites, and who are more sensitive to such such expressions, react, usually not aggressively but with bemusement or an attempt to puncture the self-satisfaction; Snooty white woman posts a compilation to provoke a mostly white audience. Hinky and distasteful.

[ibanezmonster]

There were a few creeps, but that is expected during a 10 hour walk in NYC.

She was acting rude. All you have to do is smile or laugh and keep walking. That's what I do when this girl I work with flirts with me- just today, it was, "hey there, you, looking so awesome." I've never felt objectified if I got a compliment or someone wanted to touch my biceps or whatever.


Video response:
https://www.youtube.com/v/uP1Vxu2erq4

[Karl Henning]

There were a few creeps, but that is expected during a 10 hour walk in NYC.

She was acting rude. All you have to do is smile or laugh and keep walking.

At the risk of sounding like a fortune cookie, try walking ten hours in her shoes. "All you have to do is smile or laugh and keep walking."  You do that for a whole day in New York (made up as, say, a drag queen--your experience as yourself, a twenty-something white male wouldn't prove comparable) and tell us of your success.

[Ken B]

At the risk of sounding like a fortune cookie, try walking ten hours in her shoes. "All you have to do is smile or laugh and keep walking."  You do that for a whole day in New York (made up as, say, a drag queen--your experience as yourself, a twenty-something white male wouldn't prove comparable) and tell us of your success.

That just highlights the artificiality of what she's doing Karl. Why 10 hours? She puts on a persona, the people reacting to her have no idea why or for how long, and they react to it. If she seems ruder after a few hours then she still seems rude.

[Karl Henning]

That just highlights the artificiality of what she's doing Karl. Why 10 hours? She puts on a persona, the people reacting to her have no idea why or for how long, and they react to it. If she seems ruder after a few hours then she still seems rude.

I did not mean to seem to contradict your own good point(s).  Hers was at best a flawed project.

Sort of like the call to reconsider Bach's authorship . . . .

[Ken B]

To me unsurprising, but YMMV http://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/pa-peace-activists-charged-vicious-attack-26579040

This reminds me of one of my pet peeves: news reports saying a protest "turned" violent. Frequently these were organized to be violent, and attended by people who travel for the chance to be violent. I see this a lot but the most egregious was a report on the protest in Cologne last week that "turned" violent. It was organized by neo-nazis, and soccer hooligans! Real self-described nazis, not Godwin's Law nazis. Of course violence was intended.

[jochanaan]

To me unsurprising, but YMMV http://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/pa-peace-activists-charged-vicious-attack-26579040

This reminds me of one of my pet peeves: news reports saying a protest "turned" violent. Frequently these were organized to be violent, and attended by people who travel for the chance to be violent. I see this a lot but the most egregious was a report on the protest in Cologne last week that "turned" violent. It was organized by neo-nazis, and soccer hooligans! Real self-described nazis, not Godwin's Law nazis. Of course violence was intended.

On the other hand, I've taken part in some protests here in Denver, in which the organizers were not only fully dedicated to non-violence, but aware of the possibility of agents provocateurs, folks with other agendas than ours who wanted the protests to turn violent so they would be suppressed and create a media frenzy against us. We would probably be shocked if we knew exactly how often this happens...

[ibanezmonster]

At the risk of sounding like a fortune cookie, try walking ten hours in her shoes. "All you have to do is smile or laugh and keep walking."  You do that for a whole day in New York (made up as, say, a drag queen--your experience as yourself, a twenty-something white male wouldn't prove comparable) and tell us of your success.

Oh, I'm sure it's annoying. Actually, I find it annoying to talk to anyone I don't know. Which is a terrible trait, but at least I say hi back instead of just acting stuck up. Plenty of homeless beggars, as well, in the city. There is probably a cultural element, as Ken said. I wonder how this would compare to walking in a city that is 95% white or walking in a city in Japan or Korea (I've heard of American women looking for a man in Japan only to find it very difficult compared to the opposite). Having said that, me in drag isn't a good comparison unless the woman in the video just doesn't like men (is a lesbian or asexual).

If we lived in a world where women were expected to approach men, pay for their dinners, be the one to propose marriage, help them financially, etc. then you'd have to do a bit more than say, "Good evening" while I'm walking in the street for me to make a film complaining about it. And if we lived in a world where single women were a bit more open to approaching guys or being aggressive, it might actually help with the numbers of guys who are acting annoying or weird. But in this world, the burden is almost always on the man to make the first move, or else relationships don't happen, kids aren't born and then humanity dies out. So of course you're going to have men trying to pick up women, and some men that for some reason can't find a better place to pick up women than on the street. It's not cool at all, but that's just the natural outcome. These women are complaining but really don't understand the concept of having to actually make an effort to attain a relationship when all they have to do is wait until someone that meets their standards starts to talk to them.

I would imagine catcalling women on the street being the most desperate way to get a date. Sorta like homeless guys begging in the street for money. Of course, only being homeless is required for survival, so a somewhat trivial comparison. But I wouldn't demean the homeless. The catcallers are likewise really just sad and desperate, not trying to intimidate.

On the other hand, I've taken part in some protests here in Denver, in which the organizers were not only fully dedicated to non-violence, but aware of the possibility of agents provocateurs, folks with other agendas than ours who wanted the protests to turn violent so they would be suppressed and create a media frenzy against us. We would probably be shocked if we knew exactly how often this happens...

I used to have a Gundam Wing manga about ten years ago that told this same story, but with mecha in a space setting. 

[kishnevi]

Catcalling is not looking for a mate.  It is more in the nature of a male venting sexual urges and also marking territory.

[jochanaan]

Catcalling is not looking for a mate.  It is more in the nature of a male venting sexual urges and also marking territory.

It's not even that.  It's just a raw display of power and aggression.

[jochanaan]

...I used to have a Gundam Wing manga about ten years ago that told this same story, but with mecha in a space setting. 

Sounds like he stole the idea from Heinlein.

[ibanezmonster]

I've been thinking a lot about this topic since yesterday. Sorry. 

Catcalling is not looking for a mate.  It is more in the nature of a male venting sexual urges and also marking territory.

Maybe it is quite a bit. I can't see inside the minds of the guys in the video, but some of them genuinely appear tend be looking for someone (mainly the people who try to actually talk to her or follow her, which ends up very awkward and creepy). But yeah, the ones who just yell, "Hey, baby!" behind her are acting tastelessly. "Hello!" should not be frowned on, though.  The only guy I ever knew that I'd see catcall was a white guy that acted black in many ways. Which is weird for me to say that since probably nearly half of the friends I've ever had were black, and I never noticed any of them catcalling. 


So is this what feminists want? Modern Japanese culture?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore_men

Herbivore men (草食(系)男子 Sōshoku(-kei) danshi?) or grasseaters are a social phenomenon in Japan of men who shun marriage or gaining a girlfriend.[1] They are characteristically described as frugal, and interested in personal grooming.[2] Under this categorisation scheme, men and women are either herbivore type (草食系 sōshoku-kei?) or carnivore type (肉食系 nikushoku-kei?). As of September 2010, 36% of Japanese men between the ages of 16 and 19 perceived themselves in this way.[3] Additionally, two surveys of single men in their 20s and 30s found that 61% and 70%, respectively, considered themselves grass-eating men.[4] This phenomenon is viewed by the Japanese government as a leading cause in the nation's declining birth rate, prompting the government to provide incentives for couples that have children, including payouts and free health care.[5]

The term was first coined by Maki Fukasawa in an article published on 13 October 2006, and became a buzz word in 2008 and 2009.[6][7][8][9]

This phenomenon has also created a shift in the Japanese economy. Men have been buying products such as cosmetics and sweets in greater quantities than before, and marketers have begun to shift to target this growing population. Products typical of the Japanese salaryman, such as cars, have shown a notable decrease in recent years; products geared towards family life, typically shunned by salarymen, have seen an uptick amongst fathers, as well.[10]

According to Fukasawa, sōshoku danshi are "not without romantic relationships, but [have] a non-assertive, indifferent attitude towards desire of flesh". Later, philosopher Masahiro Morioka redefined sōshoku-kei danshi as men who are "the nice guys of a new generation who do not aggressively seek meat, but instead prefer to eat grass side by side with the opposite gender."[11]

Contents  [hide]
1 Potential causes
2 Further reading
3 See also
4 References
Potential causes[edit]
Many social and economic factors are cited in playing a role in this phenomenon. The decline of the Japanese economy is often cited as a root cause as disillusionment in the economy has also caused Japanese men to turn their backs on typical "masculine" and corporate roles,[12] with over 2,500,000 freeters and between 650,000 and 850,000 NEETs living in Japan between the ages of 19 and 35.[13] Many men, including NEETs, who often live off government welfare, turn towards other forms of entertainment, such as video games, anime, maid cafes, and pornography instead.[14][15] Some professionals see this response ingrained in Japanese culture—while Westerners voice displeasure with hardships, the Japanese instead turn inwards.[16]

Many of these causes, however, may be enhanced by Japanese women and male perceptions of them. Many women refuse men that do not have steady jobs (such as freeters and NEET).[17] Other women feel that self-proclaimed soushoku-kei danshi (herbivore men) are weak and not masculine.[18] Additionally, some men have considered themselves intimidated by more independent women, while others show little to no interest in the opposite sex.[5][19] However, a poll of 16-19 year old women found that 59% were uninterested in sex, considerably higher than the male poll.[3]

This phenomenon has yet to be officially documented in other Asian nations. In China, the first report on Japanese herbivore men appeared in the state media Xinhuanet on December 1, 2008, and Masahiro Morioka's book Lessons in Love for Herbivore Boys was translated into Traditional Chinese in 2010 in Taiwan.[20]

I just find this phenomenon endlessly fascinating because it goes against the grain of all human history and human nature. The Japanese are truly the most futuristic people. Evangelion has something to say about this.

The bolded part highlights my point that even if males were less aggressive, females will still not usually be aggressive (other than the minority that really want it). So how do they get together? Answer: they don't. Maybe all of the feminists should move to Japan. Unless they are the cool few that actually approach men, they shouldn't complain if they can't get a date. Ugly dude: how dare he say "hi"! Misogynistic pig! Attractive dude: oh, hey there...

Okay, maybe I'm guilty of being a herbivore man, but at least a couple of my friends are, too. How else can you avoid criticism by feminists other than sitting in your room and talking to no one? Being nice is criticisized and so is being not nice. But non-interaction: no criticism. So take that! 

It's not even that.  It's just a raw display of power and aggression.

Lifting heavy stuff is a display of power. If they think they sound powerful saying (and they might), "hey, baby" they must really be retarded. If a big guy said, "hey baby" to me, I wouldn't feel threatened unless I thought there were a good chance I could actually be raped. There's two guys I work with that say questionable stuff like that to me regularly, and one is a 6'5" bear. He says gay stuff so much that people really do think he's gay after a while. I don't feel intimidated at all when he jokes about sexual acts with me because I know that if he's really gay, it's not like he's going to do anything unless we were completely isolated from everyone else who would be witnessing a crime.

Sounds like he stole the idea from Heinlein.

Maybe. I ended up seeing that ironic theme in other stuff later, so it may be a somewhat common theme in stories.

[Karl Henning]

"Herbivore men, won't you come out tonight,
Come out tonight, come out tonight?..."

[ibanezmonster]

"Herbivore men, won't you come out tonight,
Come out tonight, come out tonight?..."

They're too busy staying at home being intimidated by strong, independent women. 

[Karl Henning]

. . . like Anna Magdalena Bach!