Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[André]

Milos, is that the MCA version with the Vienna State Opera Orchestra ?

[TheGSMoeller]

What 9th recordings (interpretations) are similar to Boulez? I've passed on Bernstein's and Karajan, perhaps I don't like Mahler being overly Romantic? I'm not sure, but anyway thank you in advance for any recs.

[André]

Non-romantic 9ths: Leopold Ludwig LSO, Klemperer, NPO, Bertini BBCSO, Abravanel Utah SO, Ancerl CzPO. All are more interesting than Boulez.

EDIT: I didn't mean Bertini, but MADERNA 

[TheGSMoeller]

Non-romantic 9ths: Leopold Ludwig LSO, Klemperer, NPO, Bertini BBCSO, Abravanel Utah SO, Ancerl CzPO. All are more interesting than Boulez.

That's what I was looking for, André. Thanks, friend!
I'll search for those on Internet radios to get a sample.

[Drasko]

Milos, is that the MCA version with the Vienna State Opera Orchestra ?

Yes it is. Westminster studio recording, later on MCA CD or DG/Westminster reissue. Dated recording, tentative playing from smallish sounding orchestra but still I like it, probably irrationally. I find certain The Third Man post war Vienna mystique about it.

Non-romantic 9ths: Leopold Ludwig LSO, Klemperer, NPO, Bertini BBCSO, Abravanel Utah SO, Ancerl CzPO. All are more interesting than Boulez.

I'll second the Ancerl/CzPO.     

[TheGSMoeller]

Sampling Ludwig/LSO's 9th right now, this is sounding mighty fine. Although searching on Amazon I only came across a used disc for $45 or a CD-R from Everest Records for $9.

[Ken B]

What 9th recordings (interpretations) are similar to Boulez? I've passed on Bernstein's and Karajan, perhaps I don't like Mahler being overly Romantic? I'm not sure, but anyway thank you in advance for any recs.

Abravanel for sure. I don't think it is one of the best in his cycle -- those would be 7, 6, 4 -- but it is cool and more interested in inner voices than most.

[TheGSMoeller]

Thank you Drasko (welcome back, btw) and Mr. Nyman for the additional recs.

[André]

Scherchen's 7th is the bee's knees, warts and all. Go for it !

The Ludwig 9th may appear from time to time on cheapo issues. I paid mine 5$. Just wait for some Everest sale, it shouldn't be far in the future. Sound is somewhat up close and unrefined, but it fits the performance - direct, unfussy and mightily dramatic in the right places. Above all, it has that "coming home" feeling that an arch-like structure gives and that is often missed when the movements are individually characterized. Ancerl has the same type of bluntness and directness., while putting much feeiling in the adagio episodes.

Maderna's is probably the most singular account of them all. Among the BBC Legends cohort it deserves to be singled out.

[Pat B]

I find certain The Third Man post war Vienna mystique about it.

I haven't listened to it yet (currently have Haitink's Chicago 3 on) but what an intriguing description!

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Non-romantic 9ths: Leopold Ludwig LSO, Klemperer, NPO, Bertini BBCSO, Abravanel Utah SO, Ancerl CzPO. All are more interesting than Boulez.

EDIT: I didn't mean Bertini, but MADERNA 

I will second the Klemperer. Also, I think Haitink/Conc'bouw might fit the bill, but it's been a long time since I heard it.

Maderna's is probably the most singular account of them all. Among the BBC Legends cohort it deserves to be singled out.

Lots of people say this, without saying why it's so singular. Care to elaborate?

[not edward]

Lots of people say this, without saying why it's so singular. Care to elaborate?

I'm not Andre, but as someone who raves about the Maderna I can try...

It's probably not the easiest recording to describe in broad brush strokes, because in many ways it's an interpretation of opposites. The first movement is all extremes, slow tempi for the most part with sudden accelerandi that decay over the subsequent pages. The inner movements are ferocious, yet the "preview of the finale" section in the Rondo-Burleske is very carefully paced to mirror the tempi used for similar material in the finale (there are a lot of little details like that which I didn't pick up on first hearing).

But just as it seems like this is an interpretation that's heavily focused on the Romantic side of the work, the finale is surprisingly swift and light. In the closing pages Maderna lets the speed drop dramatically, which I find extremely effective but I am not sure everyone would. (Emotionally restrained, yet still thoroughly cathartic, perhaps?)

Basically, there's nothing like it, and it's the sort of recording you'll probably either love or hate. It, much like Maderna himself, isn't very interested in the safe middle.

[André]

This is very well put.

The crux of this reading lies in the Finale, which, much to my surprise, sounds hugely effective at that flowing tempo. Maderna's is a very volatile, 'of the moment' interpretation. It is anything but heart-on-sleeve. The ninth can sound like a beautiful eulogy, a very elegant musical corpse. Here it is alive to many moods and situations. Contorted, colourful and slightly neurotic like those Klimt pictures, but at the same time very organic and organized. Disturbing but convincing.

[Ken B]

What thinkst thou, worthy gentleman, of Messers Bertini and Zander?

[jlaurson]

What 9th recordings (interpretations) are similar to Boulez? I've passed on Bernstein's and Karajan, perhaps I don't like Mahler being overly Romantic? I'm not sure, but anyway thank you in advance for any recs.

Depends on what you find particular about Boulez. For one, except for the finale, Boulez is average to slightly above (or rather below ... i.e. longer) average with his timings/tempi... He's got clarity and purpose, but it's not actually cold. (Though not as far from the stereotype as his warm-blooded excellent Fifth.)

From:
Gustav Mahler – Symphony No.9 (Part 2)

Pierre Boulez' first movement has the enthralling element in common with Ančerl, his inner movements are pleasantly ambiguous: not at all the stereotype of scorn and satire. The Chicago Symphony plays splendidly under Boulez, which is to say: with all its usual glory, except also tasteful. Unfortunately Boulez' last movement goes a little too far in avoiding stereotypes: at just over 21 minutes the 'sublime arc' becomes a breezy affair, there is no danger of it ever collapsing and consequently no stirring relieve afterwards, when it hasn't.

I second Maderna and Ančerl as very fine 9th... esp. Ančerl.
Ozawa/Saito Kinen (Philips) might fall into that category...

Abbado III (Berlin) is not dissimilar, except less interesting in just about every respect.

(See also: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/05/mtt-in-mahlers-9th.html)

[bwv 1080]

Don't know if yall are familiar with Uri Caine's Mahler reinterpetations, such  klezmer versions of the first movement 5th Symphony and third movement of the First. 

https://www.youtube.com/v/urtnR6iFDpE

https://www.youtube.com/v/x3efe-G2mxo

[Pat B]

I have been listening to Mahler heavily for nearly the past year. I started with 4, then, per suggestions here, I took my time listening to the others nearly in order (with most of the song cycles mixed in early on). I'm happy with that approach as most of the symphonies took multiple listens to really appreciate. I'm still not quite there with 8 and DLVDE. But this afternoon I think I will listen to 9 for the first time.

It has been a wonderful journey. I can't help but feel a twinge of sadness.

[Moonfish]

I have been listening to Mahler heavily for nearly the past year. I started with 4, then, per suggestions here, I took my time listening to the others nearly in order (with most of the song cycles mixed in early on). I'm happy with that approach as most of the symphonies took multiple listens to really appreciate. I'm still not quite there with 8 and DLVDE. But this afternoon I think I will listen to 9 for the first time.

It has been a wonderful journey. I can't help but feel a twinge of sadness.

But now you can start over from the beginning....   

In retrospect, do you still feel that M4 was the best gateway to Mahler's symphonies?

[Jay F]

I have been listening to Mahler heavily for nearly the past year. I started with 4, then, per suggestions here, I took my time listening to the others nearly in order (with most of the song cycles mixed in early on). I'm happy with that approach as most of the symphonies took multiple listens to really appreciate. I'm still not quite there with 8 and DLVDE. But this afternoon I think I will listen to 9 for the first time.

It has been a wonderful journey. I can't help but feel a twinge of sadness.

Don't be sad. Mahler will let you listen to Mahler as often as you like. There are months when I play nothing else (well, maybe a little Shostakovich, Beethoven, and the Beatles). I'm listening to Solti's Mahler now, something I've only heard in bits and pieces over the past twenty-seven years. I probably won't like it as much as Bernstein, but I won't know unless I listen.

FWIW, I have never liked Das Lied very much, either.

[Pat B]

But now you can start over from the beginning....   

In retrospect, do you still feel that M4 was the best gateway to Mahler's symphonies?

I won't be able to recreate the sense of discovery. There is tons of other music to discover, but it's rare to find things that have a similar effect on me.

1 or 4 would have been the best gateways for me. The weird thing about my first listen of 1 was how many times I was reminded of other works (3 of Beethoven, 2 of pieces composed after M1). That might have been a bigger distraction if I hadn't already gotten into the 4th. The others are just too long and at times brash to have made a good introduction, even though I now love most of them.