Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Pat B]

I want to preface my comments by saying that I'm a musical moron. I have absolutely no talent or musical education whatsoever. The reason I'm on this forum is due to a recently discovered passion for classical music. So what I say means nothing. But I would like to hear your learned opinions and comments.

Recently I purchased the Barshai recording of Mahler's 10th. And I love it!
What are your thoughts on this recording or on the reconstructed Mahler 10's out there? Is one better than the other?

FWIW, I love all Mahler's symphonies except the 3rd and 8th, which I haven't really given a chance yet. I particulary love Abbado's 6th, 7th and 9th and Maazel's 2nd.
I look forward to learning from your comments.

No need to call yourself a moron. We're all still learning.

I like Barshai's 10. He used his own completion. Some of the orchestration doesn't sound very Mahlerian -- but in some sense, that seems appropriate for a completion. There are several other completions. Most recordings use one of the versions by Deryck Cooke. I only have Barshai and Ormandy. I haven't had the urge to collect lots of recordings of 10 (unlike the other Mahler symphonies).

8 is my least favorite Mahler symphony and probably his least popular. But 3 is great!

[Ken B]

I want to preface my comments by saying that I'm a musical moron. I have absolutely no talent or musical education whatsoever. The reason I'm on this forum is due to a recently discovered passion for classical music. So what I say means nothing. But I would like to hear your learned opinions and comments.

Recently I purchased the Barshai recording of Mahler's 10th. And I love it!
What are your thoughts on this recording or on the reconstructed Mahler 10's out there? Is one better than the other?

FWIW, I love all Mahler's symphonies except the 3rd and 8th, which I haven't really given a chance yet. I particulary love Abbado's 6th, 7th and 9th and Maazel's 2nd.
I look forward to learning from your comments.

Many of started out the same way. You're not a moron, you're a journier in a vast realm.

[Minor Key]

Many of started out the same way. You're not a moron, you're a journier in a vast realm.

No need to call yourself a moron. We're all still learning.

Thanks for the kind words!

Most recordings use one of the versions by Deryck Cooke. I only have Barshai and Ormandy. I haven't had the urge to collect lots of recordings of 10 (unlike the other Mahler symphonies).

8 is my least favorite Mahler symphony and probably his least popular. But 3 is great!

I'm thinking of trying the Cooke version by Sanderling next.
And I'm diving into Mahler's 3rd symphony! Thanks to Pat B's inspiration!

[Mirror Image]

I want to preface my comments by saying that I'm a musical moron. I have absolutely no talent or musical education whatsoever.

Someone who is new classical music is who are and a moron you're most certainly not. Don't put yourself down. We're all still learning, developing, and experiencing new things. My only suggestion is to not overwhelm yourself. Take things slow and one composer at a time.

This said, we're glad you're here and want you to continue to post. When you start getting into Sibelius, let me know.

[jlaurson]

I want to preface my comments by saying that I'm a musical moron. I have absolutely no talent or musical education whatsoever. The reason I'm on this forum is due to a recently discovered passion for classical music. So what I say means nothing. But I would like to hear your learned opinions and comments.

Recently I purchased the Barshai recording of Mahler's 10th. And I love it!
What are your thoughts on this recording or on the reconstructed Mahler 10's out there? Is one better than the other?

FWIW, I love all Mahler's symphonies except the 3rd and 8th, which I haven't really given a chance yet. I particulary love Abbado's 6th, 7th and 9th and Maazel's 2nd.
I look forward to learning from your comments.

Welcome, indeed. Morons are only those who think they are not. Straight to your point: Barshai's Mahler 10th is splendid!

There's more about the various version at the ionarts Mahler survey: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/12/mahler-survey.html

Specifically here: Gustav Mahler – Symphony No.10 (Part 1) and here Gustav Mahler – Symphony No.10 (Part 2

Rudolf Barshai set upon his own draft, drawing on all available versions and coming up with what I find to be by far the best attempt of presenting a coherent, exciting Mahler symphony. Excellent sound and a wildly inspired playing Junge Deutsche Philharmonie add tremendously. Barshai uses an almost bewildering variety of instruments in his Tenth, thereby moving further from the score in that regard than anyone else. Some might find the sounds of the guitar, castanets, or xylophones as uncharacteristic of Mahler (the Mahler of Symphonies 1-9 that is) or could think the atmosphere 'congested'. Maybe, but it makes for tremendous excitement. Of course we have no idea what Mahler would have ended up using for the final version of the Tenth—and despite the curiously large number of percussion instruments that Barshai uses, the tender and sparse, 'broken' orchestral texture of the symphony never gets disturbed. No one else sets the two gates in the first and last movement down in such a deliciously terrifying manner; Barshai successfully circumnavigates those rare moments where Cooke sounds oddly un-Mahlerian or too literal. The additional meat he hangs on the bones of the Mahler skeleton—as compared with Wheeler's leaner attempt—make for generally more satisfactory listening.

[Moonfish]

I want to preface my comments by saying that I'm a musical moron. I have absolutely no talent or musical education whatsoever. The reason I'm on this forum is due to a recently discovered passion for classical music. So what I say means nothing. But I would like to hear your learned opinions and comments.

Recently I purchased the Barshai recording of Mahler's 10th. And I love it!
What are your thoughts on this recording or on the reconstructed Mahler 10's out there? Is one better than the other?

FWIW, I love all Mahler's symphonies except the 3rd and 8th, which I haven't really given a chance yet. I particulary love Abbado's 6th, 7th and 9th and Maazel's 2nd.
I look forward to learning from your comments.

Mahler's realm is indeed mesmerizing. Welcome aboard, Minor Key! I was completely enthralled by Boulez's rendition of Das klagende Lied last week! Ahhh, I think I will dig it up for my morning commute! 
You are probably already familiar with Tony Dugan's wonderful musings about different Mahler recordings? Great inspiration for wandering through these soundscapes!

[Florestan]

You are probably already familiar with Tony Dugan's wonderful musings about different Mahler recordings? Great inspiration for wandering through these soundscapes!

Great resource indeed, thanks for pointing it out.

[Wanderer]

I want to preface my comments by saying that I'm a musical moron. I have absolutely no talent or musical education whatsoever. The reason I'm on this forum is due to a recently discovered passion for classical music. So what I say means nothing. But I would like to hear your learned opinions and comments.

Recently I purchased the Barshai recording of Mahler's 10th. And I love it!
What are your thoughts on this recording or on the reconstructed Mahler 10's out there? Is one better than the other?

FWIW, I love all Mahler's symphonies except the 3rd and 8th, which I haven't really given a chance yet. I particulary love Abbado's 6th, 7th and 9th and Maazel's 2nd.
I look forward to learning from your comments.

First of all, welcome to the forum!

The Barshai Mahler 10 is excellent, one of the top two renditions as far as I'm concerned. The other one is the RSO-Berlin/Chailly.

[Ken B]

We're all still learning, developing

Well, not Nate. He became a Stockhausen fan. So sad.
Pretty soon he will be cutting and pasting large sections of advertising flyers into the comments.

[Moonfish]

Great resource indeed, thanks for pointing it out.

Of course! 
It makes great reading and it becomes quite tempting to find some of the recordings.... 

[PerfectWagnerite]

Mahler's realm is indeed mesmerizing. Welcome aboard, Minor Key! I was completely enthralled by Boulez's rendition of Das klagende Lied last week! Ahhh, I think I will dig it up for my morning commute! 
You are probably already familiar with Tony Dugan's wonderful musings about different Mahler recordings? Great inspiration for wandering through these soundscapes!

Makes for interesting reading, some recommendations are totally laughable (Abbado and Rattle in the 3rd symphony???). The guy never heard a Horenstein or Barbirollin recording he didn't love. You really have to take whatever he says with a grain of salt. I think he throws in a couple of good mainstream recommendations in there so that he be taken seriously for the various ridiculous Horenstein, Barbirolli, or British-biased picks that he makes.

[jlaurson]

Makes for interesting reading, some recommendations are totally laughable (Abbado and Rattle in the 3rd symphony???). The guy never heard a Horenstein or Barbirollin recording he didn't love. You really have to take whatever he says with a grain of salt. I think he throws in a couple of good mainstream recommendations in there so that he be taken seriously for the various ridiculous Horenstein, Barbirolli, or British-biased picks that he makes.

British-bias is an almost amusing thing among the Brits. Mind you, it's better to be biased FOR your own than AGAINST those who are not (as in German or French bias, if I may grossly simplify), but still.
The 10 Best Bach recordings on Gramophone's site are ALL by British artists. Very droll. Will publish an alternative on Forbes... have a few ideas (including several English artists, who are often magnificent) but would like to hear others', too. If you have suggestions, perhaps you could post them in a relevant Bach-thread? Much appreciated.

[Cato]

Welcome, indeed. Morons are only those who think they are not. Straight to your point: Barshai's Mahler 10th is splendid!

There's more about the various version at the ionarts Mahler survey: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/12/mahler-survey.html

Specifically here: Gustav Mahler – Symphony No.10 (Part 1) and here Gustav Mahler – Symphony No.10 (Part 2

The Cooke performing version has fascinated me, ever since I bought the score c. 40 + years ago.  To be sure, one can never know what (especially in the finale) Mahler would have done in the finished product: would some harmonically fleshed out sections been left empty, allowing the melody to float like a single line of lamenting Gregorian chant, and like the opening "motto" in the first movement?   

Or would we have a ten-voice chord somewhere, again like in the first movement?

I was discussing the Scriabin Prefatory Action, now known as Mysterium/Universe, which was "completed" by the apparently obsessive Alexander Nemtin over several decades.  In that last version of the completion, which goes on for 3 CD's, one wonders whether the last two sections are not Nemtin trying to become Scriabin.

The music certainly sounds like something Scriabin might have composed.  So if Barshai wants to try his hand, and the result sounds like Mahler from an alternate universe where he lived until 1912 or 1913, I am fine with that!   0:)

[Florestan]

Am I a philistine if my favorite Mahler symphony is the 3rd?

[jlaurson]

Am I a philistine if my favorite Mahler symphony is the 3rd?

No. You are a Philistine if your favorite Mahler symphony is the 8th. 

The finale of the Third is Mahler at his most Mahlerian... it's amazing. (When done well.)

(The 9th is the least Mahlerian; the 7th the most easily dismissed, the 6th my favorite.)

[Florestan]

No. You are a Philistine if your favorite Mahler symphony is the 8th. 

The finale of the Third is Mahler at his most Mahlerian... it's amazing. (When done well.)

(The 9th is the least Mahlerian; the 7th the most easily dismissed, the 6th my favorite.)

The 3rd is the first Mahler symphony I´ve ever heard. It was a birthday gift from a very good friend of my father: a Supraphon double LP, with Vaclav Neuman and the Czech PO. Right on the spot back then (1985 or 86) it displaced Beethoven as my favorite composer. 30 years later I know better, but it still gives me goosebumps every time I hear it (work or performance, it doesn´t matter). 

[Jo498]

A philistine would probably favor the 5th (because of the adagietto) or the 1st (because comparably short and sweet).

I find the 9th very Mahlerian. The 3rd (too long and sprawling for me) is the "summit" of the early Mahler, pantheistically embracing the natural world and even some medieval-childish "earthly paradise" (the finale of the 4th was originally be supposed to be another part of the 3rd "Was mir das Kind erzählt" (or "Was mir die Engel erzählen", the other one is the Bimmbamm-Movement)).
The 9th is the summit of the late Mahler: renunciation of the world, but more "abstract" than in "Das Lied von der Erde".

[Karl Henning]

A philistine would probably favor the 5th (because of the adagietto)

Hah! This posts belongs in the snobbery thread.   

(* chortle *)

I love the Adagietto, and I don't care who knows it 

[Florestan]

I love the Adagietto

Me too! It´s like Late Romanticism as you won´t hear it too often...

[Minor Key]

You are probably already familiar with Tony Dugan's wonderful musings about different Mahler recordings? Great inspiration for wandering through these soundscapes!

Thanks everyone for the kind words and information!