Author Topic: The Boris Johnson thread.  (Read 287 times)

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2019, 10:41:04 AM »
It's also fair to consider Churchill a disaster until 1940 - and then he had his finest hour (lasting for two years) which deserves him all posterior praise. Thus far Boris only succesfully copied the disaster.  :D
Very true Johan. He seems to have Churchill's bombast and arrogance without any of his genius.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2019, 10:43:12 AM »
;D

Hey, don't get me wrong, Boris Johnson would have been no match for Hitler. But can you really divorce Churchill's achievements and fame from his battle with Hitler? What would have Churchill achieved without the latter?

No, honestly, Churchill got itto power with the specific purpose to oppose, and later defeat, Hitler. What's so strange in my naming the later guy?
I think that you are right about Churchill. Without his defiance of Hitler, Churchill would, I suspect, be seen as something of a political failure. It is true, however, that he was a social reformer in his Liberal days  at the start of the 20th century - something often forgotten.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 10:45:01 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2019, 10:46:34 AM »
     Churchill had the most extensive factual information on German rearmament, not German intelligence operations, and his political instincts about NAZI intentions were spot on.

     Churchill defended fortress Britain long enough for Stalin and Roosevelt to defeat Germany.

   

Good point I think.

Thanks to everyone for contributions.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Que

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2019, 10:58:36 AM »
Good point I think.

Thanks to everyone for contributions.


You didn't see those coming, did you?  :D

Anyway, since Johnson is able to sell anything to his electorate, some "on the continent" actually hope that he will trick the British in signing off on the withdrawal agreement  (May's deal). 
Why on earth would he do that?  ::) To survive as PM, of course!  :D
He will come up with some bogus story about miraculous changes to the deal,  and the EU will be willing to play along....

It’s either that scenario, or he will drag the UK out of the EU without any deal and all hell will break loose. ..

Q
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 11:00:51 AM by Que »

Offline Florestan

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2019, 11:01:56 AM »
Very true Johan. He seems to have Churchill's bombast and arrogance without any of his genius.

So what? His finest hour came afterward --- bombast and arrogance included.

No, honestly, let's see:

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our [country], whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender

Substitute Hitler for Churchill --- what would have changed for the troops, the rank and files of the party(es), and the people, pray tell honestly?

On a more general note, what's wrong with Horst-Wessel-Lied?

History is written and taught and enforced by the victors.











« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 01:14:19 AM by Florestan »
"Medtner [is] one of  the few oases of the old musical outlook --- when music was music and not a sport; when it still served as the language of expression; when it was permissible and not ridiculous to feel, and to disclose one's feelings" - Leonid Sabaneev

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2019, 09:49:10 PM »


You didn't see those coming, did you?  :D

Anyway, since Johnson is able to sell anything to his electorate, some "on the continent" actually hope that he will trick the British in signing off on the withdrawal agreement  (May's deal). 
Why on earth would he do that?  ::) To survive as PM, of course!  :D
He will come up with some bogus story about miraculous changes to the deal,  and the EU will be willing to play along....

It’s either that scenario, or he will drag the UK out of the EU without any deal and all hell will break loose. ..

Q
No I didn't indeed  8)

The odd thing is that I checked the thread yesterday and there were zero responses (not an unusual situation for me ;)) and then there were suddenly loads, mainly from the same people of course but still welcome.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 09:54:20 PM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2019, 09:53:53 PM »
So what? His finest hour came afterward --- bombast and arrogance included.

No, honestly, let's see:

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our [country], whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender

Substitute Hitler for Churchill --- what would have changed for the troops, the rank and files of the party(es), and the people, pray tell honestly?


Oh yes, of course Churchill's bombast and arrogance was part of his personality I agree and he needed supreme confidence in his 'destiny' to lead the nation through those 'darkest hours'.

I read the other day that Boris Johnson is the only politician who could reverse Brexit and probably get away with it!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline amw

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2019, 11:02:36 PM »
Churchill racked up a body count of approximately 3 million through engineering a genocidal famine in Bengal in the 1940s. I'm not sure Boris Johnson is yet in the same league; he's yet to genocide anyone.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2019, 11:35:26 PM »
Churchill racked up a body count of approximately 3 million through engineering a genocidal famine in Bengal in the 1940s. I'm not sure Boris Johnson is yet in the same league; he's yet to genocide anyone.
I think that 'engineering a genocidal famine...' might be overstating it.
Here is an alternative view, featuring Boris Johnson as well!
https://winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/did-churchill-cause-the-bengal-famine/
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 11:37:00 PM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).