Haydn's Haus

[jlaurson]

I would like to hear it once. I have never spoiled Minkowski's "Surprise" for anyone, but I still enjoy the bizarreness of it. I would enjoy to see that group play, although I doubt they will show up at my local venue for a while...

Well, Minkowski is US American, actually, technically. But Texas? Maybe not that American. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, Minkowski is US American, actually, technically. But Texas? Maybe not that American. 

Not just Texas, rural Texas!   When the Juilliard 4tet came here in 2000 ("Our schedule for this year is New York, London, Paris and ... Nacogdoches "  (aside: "Where's our agent?  ") we probably saw all the big time acts for my lifetime.   They did play, Haydn, Beethoven and Bartok though.  0:)

[chasmaniac]

Not just Texas, rural Texas!   When the Juilliard 4tet came here in 2000 ("Our schedule for this year is New York, London, Paris and ... Nacogdoches "  (aside: "Where's our agent?  ") we probably saw all the big time acts for my lifetime.   They did play, Haydn, Beethoven and Bartok though.  0:)

That must have been a party!



EDIT: I know! I know! McCloud was from Taos, New Mexico. Passed through Baghdad, though, by the look of it. 

[Opus106]

I have never spoiled Minkowski's "Surprise" for anyone, but I still enjoy the bizarreness of it.

That 'surprise' has been mentioned often enough in these (GMG) pages, or at least I've read about them so many times, that I will be waiting for my surprise if and when I hear that recording.

[Karl Henning]

From that debatable-attribution land of the Craft/Stravinsky books:

Of all the musicians of his age Haydn was the most aware, I think, that to be perfectly symmetrical is to be perfectly dead.

[Gurn Blanston]

From that debatable-attribution land of the Craft/Stravinsky books:

Of all the musicians of his age Haydn was the most aware, I think, that to be perfectly symmetrical is to be perfectly dead.

It is certainly true de facto. Whether he would have verbalized it that way is open for debate. Whether he did it is not.

[Leon]

I went to the Piano Trio thread and saw a lot of talk about the group Gaia Scienza and realized that I had nothing in my collection by them.  So, I found this gem and am enjoying it as I type.

[asin]B0020LI68A[/asin]

I've several other things wish-listed, so this little guy won't be alone for long.

[Gurn Blanston]

I went to the Piano Trio thread and saw a lot of talk about the group Gaia Scienta and realized that I had nothing in my collection by them.  So, I found this gem and am enjoying it as I type.

[asin]B0020LI68A[/asin]

I've several other things wish-listed, so this little guy won't be alone for long.

Yup, that's a peach, Arnold. It is the one that I have settled on actually, for this list when we get to 1790. Wonderfully well-played and with Winter & Winter's always great recorded sound.



----------------
Now playing:
Trio 1790 - Hob 15_22 Trio in Eb 3rd mvmt - Finale: Allegro

[Gurn Blanston]

Part 8

1759
This was a year spent in service to Count Morzin. It is quite unfortunate that we have almost nothing in the way of documents telling us about this period. All we know is that his music continued right ahead, with 4 new symphonies and 2 new quartets (at least as we talked about those quartets earlier). He also gave music lessons at home now, and accompanied on the cembalo the Countess, who was an accomplished singer.

Also at this time he married. It is unlikely that there was ever a less compatible pair than Maria Keller and Joseph Haydn, but there you have it. It is hard to imagine that a man who was such a fine judge of character could so far misjudge either hers or maybe his own! In any case, it was till death that they parted, but the time between 1759 or 60 and 1802 was a long, long one!

Here is the music from 1759;

Hob 01_004 Symphony in D
Hob 01_010 Symphony in D
Hob 01_020 Symphony in C
  The Hanover Band / Goodman
Hob 01_027 Symphony in G   
  Academy of Ancient Music / Hogwood



Hob 03_05/02_06  Divertimento in Eb for Strings Op 1 #5 "Op 0"
Hob 03_06 Divertimento in C for Strings Op 1 #6   
  Hamburg Soloists / Emil Klein



Haydn continued to write symphonies for his little band at Morzin's place. This very small ensemble, probably a dozen or even fewer, served as a training ground for composition. As was very common at the time, especially in Bohemia where they were hanging out, most of the 'musicians' were in fact servants pressed into service. Nonetheless, the symphonies themselves were as good as any and better than most being written at the time. In keeping with our habit so far, I am sticking with Goodman and Hogwood for this year's crop. The performances are elegant and very much in keeping with the times.

Opus 0? Well, what can I say? Hoboken wasn't perfect, and he made some unusual decisions when he started the catalog. It was OK until later scholarship changed a few things. Opus 0 is a good example of something that we'll see again later.

Op 1 & 2 as originally published had some oddities. We talked earlier about Opus 2 #3 & 5 being the divertimentos Hob II:22 & 23 for strings & 2 horns, with the horn parts simply lopped off.    Well, Op 1 #5 (in its original incarnation in 1765) was never a string quartet at all, it was merely an arrangement of Symphony "A" (#107). So when these genuine Haydn works, that weren't really string quartets, were removed from Opp 1 & 2, that left just 9 works instead of the original 12. None of this was Hoboken's fault (nor was it Haydn's, all this was done without his knowledge or consent).

However, Hoboken had made a combination discovery and error. He found yet another string quartet in exactly the same style as the other 9 genuine ones (it is also genuine), but instead of putting it in Hob III, he did with it what should have been done with all of them, and put it in Hob II. That is why Hob II:6 shows to be empty now, because later workers put it in its proper place. Today it is nearly always published as "Op 1 #5". But it is called by most people "Op 0", since it never had a published Op #, and to differentiate it from the string quartet arrangement of Symphony A. Also continuing on with the Klein/Hamburg set here. And while I despair of ever having a set on period instruments, in the meantime I am very pleased with these.

So that's the first decade in the books. We have come a long way from the Missa Brevis, but there is such a long way to go yet!

Feedback still welcome!

[Gurn Blanston]

Divertimentos

The term was in common usage through the middle part of the 18th century to define instrumental music that was other than a concerto or sinfonia. There is a common misconception that it refers to light (and lightweight) music, but it was not used that way in its own time. It is not a synonym of the French term divertissement, since that word could also be used to name vocal and/or dance music, which was never the case with divertimento.

Haydn used it for all of the following genres;

Keyboard sonatas, string trios, baryton trios, keyboard trios, string quartets, keyboard quartets, baryton octets, mixed wind and string groups and wind band (Harmonie)music. The normal form you have seen:  "Divertimento for Four  (a Quattro)" for a string quartet for example, or "Divertimento a 8to Stromenti" (for 8 instruments). His keyboard sonatas were "Divertimento a cembalo solo".

The first work that he would have normally called a divertimento but didn't do so was in 1771, the Sonata in c minor Hob 16:20. Throughout the 1770's, his use of the term nearly totally faded away as far as anything in public, although autograph manuscripts still use it right up through the 1780's for himself and the publisher.

Curious what anyone else can add here. It seems like I know some other little tidbits, but they don't come to mind right now...

[Leon]

Jumping ahead a bit to 1761-63, but this morning I happened to listen to Sym. #6 in D and the second movement was like a small concerto for violin - very wonderful music and somewhat odd in form, seems to me, for a symphony's middle movement.  But I am noticing more and more how in the early symphonies, Haydn would feature individual instruments, such as the double bass in the Minuet movement from #7 in C.  I think he was still experimenting with the form.

[Gurn Blanston]

Jumping ahead a bit to 1761-63, but this morning I happened to listen to Sym. #6 in D and the second movement was like a small concerto for violin - very wonderful music and somewhat odd in form, seems to me, for a symphony's middle movement.  But I am noticing more and more how in the early symphonies, Haydn would feature individual instruments, such as the double bass in the Minuet movement from #7 in C.  I think he was still experimenting with the form.

I have seen it proposed, and it seems credible to me, that his early influences included a heavy dose of Italian concerto grosso form, which relies heavily on concertante solos among the solisti group. Thus you find wonderful solo parts for the various virtuosi throughout the symphonies, even into the very late ones, where he provided a lovely solo violin part for Salomon in #98, for example. It sort of becomes his trademark. 

[chasmaniac]

I have seen it proposed, and it seems credible to me, that his early influences included a heavy dose of Italian concerto grosso form, which relies heavily on concertante solos among the solisti group. Thus you find wonderful solo parts for the various virtuosi throughout the symphonies, even into the very late ones, where he provided a lovely solo violin part for Salomon in #98, for example. It sort of becomes his trademark. 

Isn't there a neato cello bit too, in one of the Londons?

EDIT: It's in the trio of one of the minuets.

[Gurn Blanston]

Isn't there a neato cello bit too, in one of the Londons?

EDIT: It's in the trio of one of the minuets.

There is, but I can't remember which now. #96? I think that's it. And let's not forget the horn solos that culminated in #31, there are several contemporaneous works that have them too.

[chasmaniac]

There is, but I can't remember which now. #96? I think that's it. And let's not forget the horn solos that culminated in #31, there are several contemporaneous works that have them too.

Got it now. #95 in Cm, with the gorgeous contrapuntal finale.

[Leon]

I have seen it proposed, and it seems credible to me, that his early influences included a heavy dose of Italian concerto grosso form, which relies heavily on concertante solos among the solisti group. Thus you find wonderful solo parts for the various virtuosi throughout the symphonies, even into the very late ones, where he provided a lovely solo violin part for Salomon in #98, for example. It sort of becomes his trademark. 

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I just re-listened to #98 and did not hear any solo violin part.  Maybe you are thinking of a different one or are considering a short section with a solo voice?  #6 and also #7 have entire movements devoted to either a solo instrument, e.g. violin, featured,  and in #7,  bass, or a duet as in the flute/violin movement in #7 (there are probably more cases and this is something, now that I have taken note of it, I will look for in all the early ones and attempt to find where the practice began to fade away).  While he may feature a solo instrument hear and there in the later numbers (as do all symphonists) my guess is that as he solidifies the idea of what is a symphony in his mind, an entire movement being given over to one instrument as solo voice being accompanied by the rest of the orchestra is not found much, if at all, other than in the early numbers.

Of course, I would love to be proven wrong.

[Gurn Blanston]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I just re-listened to #98 and did not hear any solo violin part.  Maybe you are thinking of a different one or are considering a short section with a solo voice?  #6 and also #7 have entire movements devoted to either a solo instrument, e.g. violin, featured,  and in #7,  bass, or a duet as in the flute/violin movement in #7 (there are probably more cases and this is something, now that I have taken note of it, I will look for in all the early ones and attempt to find where the practice began to fade away).  While he may feature a solo instrument hear and there in the later numbers (as do all symphonists) my guess is that as he solidifies the idea of what is a symphony in his mind, an entire movement being given over to one instrument as solo voice being accompanied by the rest of the orchestra is not found much, if at all, other than in the early numbers.

Of course, I would love to be proven wrong.

Well, I'm not one to prove anyone right or wrong, not my way. The answer is actually as much a judgment call by the listener as anything else.

If you go to the 4:00 mark of the finale, There is some bantering between the fist violin and first the oboe, then the flute. It sounds sort of like the trio of a minuet, being somewhat on the bare side, although there are bursts of "ritornello" going on from the orchestra. This is taking place during development of the 2nd theme, the way I hear it. Anyway, just after the 5 minutes mark (in the Minkowski and Kuijken versions), the violin has about 10-12 measures of playing alone, with an occasional bit of help from the cello (I think), and then the winds comes back in, and then the entire orchestra again. The whole episode last a bit under 1 minute. And then of course, it closes out with the keyboard having a little tinkle there, too. Anyway, I don't know, I don't hear that sort of exposed solo in a lot of other symphonies from that time, although later on it becomes more popular. True, it isn't a concerto like in a Mozart orchestral serenade, but still, I think it is a stylistic holdover from his much earlier period (Earliest Esterhazy).

[Gurn Blanston]

Got it now. #95 in Cm, with the gorgeous contrapuntal finale.

Yeah, 95 is excellent.   BTW, if you want to listen to those nice horn solo parts, #72 was composed within a couple of years of it (72 in 1763, 31 in 1765).  Both of them feature some great horn playing. It must have been a nice bonus for Haydn at the time to have such great players to write for.

[TheGSMoeller]

Yeah, 95 is excellent.  

Got it now. #95 in Cm, with the gorgeous contrapuntal finale.

It's great to see others mention #95, that has grown into one of my favorites from the "London" symphonies. And yes, the finale is wonderful, I especially love how with about a minute left it briefly switches to minor, just how the symphony began.

[Bogey]

Just one of those evenings that I wanted to grab a few off the shelf that do not get much of my attention, but I enjoy:



Always like finding an Erato in the used bins....kind of the Naxos before their time. 

and



Two from this set.....really enjoy the Caspar da SaloQuartett....nothing flashy.  A poor man's Tátrai Quartet, if you will.  I will finish off listening to the third disc tomorrow....unless I throw a #95 in my bag for work.  Hmmmm, Solti or Fischer?