Author Topic: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)  (Read 11900 times)

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Henk

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Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« on: November 16, 2008, 10:45:07 AM »
One of my latest discoveries, certainly deserves a thread.

For people unknown to his music, I can recommend this disc:

violinconcerto

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2008, 10:32:24 AM »
Does anyone here got a recording of his Violin concerto?

Offline some guy

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2008, 01:11:02 PM »
violinconcerto, I have no recording of Donatoni's violin concerto, but I did recently purchase Jurgis Juozapaitis' album, Tower Counterpoints, which opens with a piece called Solo Contra Tutti, which turns out to be a violin concerto, and I thought of you.

I have the disc the OP mentioned, which is very fine, and the orchestral works, vol. 2, which has Arie, Voci, Prom, and Doubles II. It's all good, but time, I think, to get some more.

Offline Brewski

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2008, 01:31:21 PM »
To my knowledge I've only heard a couple of his chamber works, but the best by far was Arp├Ęge (1986), played by the sextet eighth blackbird about two years ago.  Just fantastic.  Here is a review of their 2007 performance of it in Philadelphia. 

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Offline UB

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2008, 02:37:42 PM »
Does anyone here got a recording of his Violin concerto?

Did he write one? I know he studied the violin but I do not remember any violin concerto or work for violin and orchestra.

I am not in the entertainment business. Harrison Birtwistle 2010

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2008, 08:11:10 PM »
What does he sound like/any similarities to other composers?
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

violinconcerto

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2008, 11:43:11 AM »
Did he write one? I know he studied the violin but I do not remember any violin concerto or work for violin and orchestra.


I once came across a note that he wrote a violin concerto and so put it into my "search list", but cannot recall the source. But additionally I found a note about the Divertimento by Donatoni which is for violin and orchestra as well:

http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/detail_notice.php?no_article=SHOTK00891



Quote from: some guy
I did recently purchase Jurgis Juozapaitis' album, Tower Counterpoints, which opens with a piece called Solo Contra Tutti, which turns out to be a violin concerto, and I thought of you.

Thats nice, thank you. I have a recording of that work as well and will give it a listen this evening!  :D

Offline some guy

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2008, 05:36:18 PM »
Lethe, sorry for the delay. I find it difficult to say who practically anyone sounds like, other than themselves. One hears a lot of Varese in Corcoran, at least at first, and a lot of Bartok in Veress. Almost everyone has a few early pieces that sound like their teachers or other influences. But the better ones always transcend that.

I suppose one could say that Donatoni is more like Solbiati or even Berio than he is like Scelsi or Nono, if that's any help!

Violinconcerto, you're very welcome. I was recently in Vilnius and so picked up several albums of Lithuanian music, much of it very good indeed. (Though the pick of the lot was a CD of contemporary Irish music that Grainne Mulvey was carrying around with her.)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 12:03:17 AM by some guy »

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2008, 12:59:18 AM »
Lethe, sorry for the delay. I find it difficult to say who practically anyone sounds like, other than themselves. One hears a lot of Varese in Corcoran, at least at first, and a lot of Bartok in Veress. Almost everyone has a few early pieces that sound like their teachers or other influences. But the better ones always transcend that.

I suppose one could say that Donatoni is more like Solbiati or even Berio than he is like Scelsi or Nono, if that's any help!

It does - especially the last sentence, thank you.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

snyprrr

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2009, 01:04:13 AM »
Donatoni's "return", or beginning late period (mid '70s), to me, is one of the most original and fun searches for a new language. In almost everything I've heard (6 discs) he simply takes an upward moving scale and "develops/varies?" it over the course of the piece, creating a great complexity. The sound is infectiously bubbly and bouncy, and, for a composer of high modernism, FUN! Kind of like an allegro Feldman, though with more variety (like a regular composer, haha).

All the Stradivarius discs are good, but the OP's (Henk?) original Stradivarious (Ash, Arpege, For Grilly, etc...) was my first encounter with Donatoni, and it was love at first sight. He was the first avant that really appealed to me musically, in a joy of music sense, in an Italian melodic way.

Donatoni is also the poster child for droolworthy out of print labels Harmonic, Adda, Accord, and 2e2m. If you have any of these (I have a couple somewhere), you know.

He is also author of one of the most delicious cycle of solo instrumental pieces, and for me, I might rather have a complete set of Donatoni rather than Berio's Sequenzas. I think they're that good. One of the Strad discs covers an interesting selection of these solo pieces.

As this late period developed until his death, he began writing interchangeble..."titles"...Is, IIs, IIIs, IVs...Cloches I, Cloches II being the best example. It starts to get a little confusing here, and I haven't delved into this late late period yet (kind of piece meal on cd right now). But Donatoni definitely seems to be popping up on a lot of recital discs, from violin to bass clarinet to percussion, and everything in between.

Considering that it was one of those composerly fits of deepest depression over serialism that brought Donatoni to his late style, it's great how his music became so...happy sounding!

I don't know the details, but serialist Donatoni apparently wrote his SQ No.4 Zrcaldo (1964) utilizing the newspaper classifieds, or something desperate like that!

A)In a way, I wish jazz sounded more like this.

B)Ultimately, I have a hard time saying anything bad about the Italians.

snyprrr

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2010, 08:43:35 PM »
Seriously? >:D :'(



I recently missed out on the two 2e2m/Mefano discs of Donatoni, and went a-searchin' for something else. Like I said,...uh,...in my last post ::), it seems like I've got almost every other chamber disc that has about five pieces per, when I saw this newish Strad cd with guitar/ensemble pieces on it. And hey, Wellesz put them all on YouTube! Yay!

So, it seems like a great album (one piece is madolin, mandola, guitar), but the recording seems a bit 'something' (too up front?, too dry?, a little hard?), and, honestly, after a while of these late decade pieces, I was kind of eager to get back to that original Strad/chamber disc (w/For Grilly). Haven't got there yet. The above piece I mentioned is pretty interesting, though. Check out 'Donatoni Poll' on the YouTube Search and go from there.



I see there is now also a '10 Year Anniversary' album from Strad, which includes Hot and Flag, but, unfortunately, seems to be entirely available elsewhere. No really new pieces.



That leaves the 2-3 orchestral cds which I'm not feelin' at the moment, and a few stray pieces on some very expensive cds, ugh. Maybe I'll shoot for his cool guitar piece, Algo (which, incidently, is on that first cd), which I used to have on an interesting Ondine disc.

The Francoise Variations James mentioned is also on the radar, though the entire disc of Donatoni Piano Music may be too much for me at the moment (already have Rima).

oh, and then there's Rasch II for sax quartet and 4?/6? percussionists, which is on a lot of different cds. That piece has that old Donatoni bounce.



oh great, that's about $100 for all that. :-\


snyprrr

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2010, 08:51:07 PM »
ah, someguy, I was hoping you show up!

snyprrr

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2011, 09:25:07 PM »

I once came across a note that he wrote a violin concerto and so put it into my "search list", but cannot recall the source. But additionally I found a note about the Divertimento by Donatoni which is for violin and orchestra as well:

http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/detail_notice.php?no_article=SHOTK00891

As far as I know the Divertimento IS the VC. Very sure there is no mature work.



Thats nice, thank you. I have a recording of that work as well and will give it a listen this evening!  :D

snyprrr

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2011, 09:39:02 PM »
Has anyone heard the Stradivarius disc with all the Chamber Works with Guitar (Algo, Algo IV, Poll, About,...)?


Offline mjwal

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2011, 06:54:20 AM »
Snyprrr wrote
Quote
In a way, I wish jazz sounded more like this.
Interesting - I only have one Donatoni CD (apart from Tema/Cadeau on that great Erato CD with Ligeti), a superb chamber ensemble collection conducted by Mefano (btw you can still get it for a reasonable price on Amazon.de) with Lumen etc - I really must follow that up - and the one comparison that comes to mind is some of Franz Koglmann's work, especially as regards that FUN quality you praise (though of course Koglmann denies that the stuff he does is jazz - but he sure plays with a lot of jazz musicians...).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 06:57:45 AM by mjwal »
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

snyprrr

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2011, 07:59:52 AM »
Snyprrr wroteInteresting - I only have one Donatoni CD (apart from Tema/Cadeau on that great Erato CD with Ligeti), a superb chamber ensemble collection conducted by Mefano (btw you can still get it for a reasonable price on Amazon.de) with Lumen etc - I really must follow that up - and the one comparison that comes to mind is some of Franz Koglmann's work, especially as regards that FUN quality you praise (though of course Koglmann denies that the stuff he does is jazz - but he sure plays with a lot of jazz musicians...).

I think the Strad disc with Lumen, Arpege, etc,... is thee best Donatoni disc, mainly because the sound is very nice. I'm sure the Mefanos are nice too, though.

Of course, with amazon.de's $16 shipping, haha,...

Henk

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2011, 08:14:22 AM »
Has anyone heard the Stradivarius disc with all the Chamber Works with Guitar (Algo, Algo IV, Poll, About,...)?

Yes, it's great.

snyprrr

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2011, 09:13:57 PM »
Yea that disc has some nice stuff ... but be sure to check out the Francoise Variations it's a very wonderful thing .. and one of the best modern classical piano solos i've ever heard. Top Donatoni composition.

ok, you've convinced me. It IS a substantial piece,... I'm on a piano bender as it is, though I haven't bought yet (see CDCDCD Thread, haha).

snyprrr

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2011, 01:58:20 PM »
Yea that disc has some nice stuff ... but be sure to check out the Francoise Variations it's a very wonderful thing .. and one of the best modern classical piano solos i've ever heard. Top Donatoni composition.

Just arrived. Will get back on the FV.

snyprrr

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Re: Franco Donatoni (1927-2000)
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2011, 11:01:33 PM »
Yea that disc has some nice stuff ... but be sure to check out the Francoise Variations it's a very wonderful thing .. and one of the best modern classical piano solos i've ever heard. Top Donatoni composition.

Earlier, I just listened to Track 8, which was in the middle of the piece, and didn't think I'd be convinced, but when I just heard it from the beginning, I must say indeed that it is quite a scintillating 35min piece of music. As with all FD, it's totally meaningless up and down, but it's so joyous and fun sounding that it convinces you that this is what all music should sound like! I did notice how Track 8 was different, and only works for me in context. He certainly gets great mileage from vapors!

The companion Gorli pieces I also found interesting, still web-like, but much more delicate and mysterious. FD is more like Feldman and Xenakis, in that dynamics seem to be somewhat irrelevant.