Frederick Delius

[Mirror Image]

Let me also say that it seems that Delius' music has touched you, Leo, and grabbed you in a way that the ones who love his music know all too well. Johan, myself, cilgwyn, etc. may disagree about a performance or whatever, but the most important thing is we love this music. We thirst for it. As I have mentioned, it was love on first listen for me. I never heard a composer like him in my life. At that time, I was already familiar with Ravel, Bartok, among others and then his music just hit me. I really don't know what came over me really. It's hard to explain, but I was completely mesmerized.

[Mirror Image]

A gem from Delius' later output, A Song of Summer:

After Delius was blinded and crippled by tertiary syphilis in the early '20s, his composing career seemed effectively to have ended. But the arrival of Eric Fenby, a young English man who had fallen in love with Delius' music, re-vitalized Delius, and, with Fenby's help and cooperation, Delius returned to composition. Arguably the best work of Delius' final creative period was A Song of Summer. Based on A Poem of Life and Love that Delius had written in 1918 but never performed or published, the vast and spacious opening of A Song of Summer was dictated by Delius to Fenby, who then interwove themes from the earlier work into the fabric of Delius' invention. The result is Delius purified and refined with themes of heart-quickening beauty and harmonies of opulent voluptuousness scored with supreme sensuousness. Of course, being composed by Delius, A Song of Summer has no rhythm and very little form: the harmonies move at their own ecstatically indolent speed and the form is essentially erotic, featuring a pair of orgasmic climaxes preceded by rising passion and followed by languor.

[Taken from All Music Guide]

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

A Song of Summer is, indeed, a gem. I always get the sense that its climax is the final climax of Delius'music in general. Very moving. As for its putative 'formlessness', I think the structure of this piece is very lucid.

[Mirror Image]

A Song of Summer is, indeed, a gem. I always get the sense that its climax is the final climax of Delius'music in general. Very moving. As for its putative 'formlessness', I think the structure of this piece is very lucid.

Agreed, Johan. I think people who criticize the work are the same people who just don't get Delius. I've come to this conclusion about most criticism about his music. I just don't understand how people can criticize music that's so inherently beautiful and that's in its own alternate universe. As Anthony Payne points out that there's a certain temperament in Delius' music that only a few truly can warm to and also mentioned that the music changes so rapidly, especially in the mature works, that it's hard to take it all in. He said people who don't enjoy it thinks the music should be going somewhere, there needs to be development, blah, blah, blah, but as I've mentioned earlier in this thread these are the same people that praise someone like Morton Feldman! I never understood some of these blasted, know-it-all critics. The best thing they can do is don't write about Delius. They know nothing about him nor do they show any interest and want to learn about the music. Let people who understand the music and can sympathize with it write the reviews!

Anyway, okay...rant over.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Christopher Palmer in his Delius book said the same thing as Anthony Payne - Delius will never be for the masses. He is an aristocratic poet in sound. Nevertheless, he gets a few essentials of the human predicament (love, loss, Nature in us, we in Nature) musically right as hardly anyone else manages to do in such a beautifully poignant and spell-binding way.

And now to bed!

[Mirror Image]

Christopher Palmer in his Delius book said the same thing as Anthony Payne - Delius will never be for the masses. He is an aristocratic poet in sound. Nevertheless, he gets a few essentials of the human predicament (love, loss, Nature in us, we in Nature) musically right as hardly anyone else manages to do in such a beautifully poignant and spell-binding way.

And now to bed!

This is true. I like your term for him "aristocratic poet in sound."

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I have Jacksonville, FL in my sights. I'm going to be visiting the Delius House. I'm also hoping to be able to talk to someone about my favorite composer. That older man who was in the documentary Composer, Lover, Enigma named Jeff Driggers who lives in Jacksonville would be interesting to meet. He seems to know a good bit about the composer. I would great to talk with him and actually whoever is in charge of the Delius House on the campus of the University of Jacksonville.

[Mirror Image]

I WISH I WAS IN JACKSONVILLE IN 2004!!!! CHECK THIS OUT!!!









Click on images to enlarge.

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I've been listening to this one tonight:



Listening to On Hearing the First Cuckoo in Spring. Very good performance. I understand why you like this performance so much, Johan. It does have that sway to it. This particular performance doesn't have the orchestral weightiness of Handley's Chandos performance, but it's certainly a commendable performance and one I'm sure I'll return to again.

[Leo K.]

I've been listening to this one tonight:



Listening to On Hearing the First Cuckoo in Spring. Very good performance. I understand why you like this performance so much, Johan. It does have that sway to it. This particular performance doesn't have the orchestral weightiness of Handley's Chandos performance, but it's certainly a commendable performance and one I'm sure I'll return to again.

One of my first Delius recordings, I'm a big fan of Beecham too. It's time to return to Delius this weekend Beecham's Sea Drift account

[Mirror Image]

One of my first Delius recordings, I'm a big fan of Beecham too. It's time to return to Delius this weekend Beecham's Sea Drift account

I'm still getting Beecham's performances under my grasp. I wouldn't say I'm a big fan (yet), but I admire his championship and support of Delius. I stopped this recording so I could read another chapter of Fenby's book Delius As I Knew Him, but I am now resuming this Beecham recording. Listening to Sleigh Ride right now. Nice!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

 There is one extra reason why I like Beecham's Delius so much, I think - the fact that the recordings are historic gives them that added poignancy, apart from the fact that the way the orchestra sounds is unrepeatable. Those musicians are from Delius' time, or were born when he was old. But they are still part of a world that now is irrevocably gone. I don't think that special Delian magic will ever be so well captured again, because younger generations are simply not in touch anymore with the things that were meaningful to Delius. Whether this is peculiar to Delius or to all great but dead composers is an interesting question. I do think, though, that Delius' uniqueness is bound up with the times he lived through and that such a kind of artist was only then possible.

[Leo K.]

There is one extra reason why I like Beecham's Delius so much, I think - the fact that the recordings are historic gives them that added poignancy, apart from the fact that the way the orchestra sounds is unrepeatable. Those musicians are from Delius' time, or were born when he was old. But they are still part of a world that now is irrevocably gone. I don't think that special Delian magic will ever be so well captured again, because younger generations are simply not in touch anymore with the things that were meaningful to Delius. Whether this is peculiar to Delius or to all great but dead composers is an interesting question. I do think, though, that Delius' uniqueness is bound up with the times he lived through and that such a kind of artist was only then possible.

That is right on my friend, very eloquently put!!

[cilgwyn]

I hope so,anyway! The recent emi box set of Beecham conducting English music dropped through the letter box today,along with Tasmin Little & Piers Lane performing the Four Violin Sonatas.
I agree with you. His performances are magical. On cd 6 of the box,'Bantock's Fifine at the Fair (not a favourite of mine) never sounded better,to my ears;even in mono sound. Though,his Columbia recording of Berner's 'The Triumph of Neptune' is more fun. A piece I rather like,even if it isn't terribly deep.
I can't wait to hear his performances of 'Song of the High Hills' & 'A Village Romeo & Juliet'. The dated sound & style of singing doesn't usually bother me. I think it adds to the atmosphere. I recently bought the (historic,not the Schwarz)  Naxos set of Howard Hanson's 'The Merry Mount',and I loved it.
I notice 'Paa Vidderne' is on the set (haven't heard that one)  & some other Beecham recordings I haven't encountered before.

[cilgwyn]

Apologies for that last post! It seems a bit perverse posting about cd6 of the Beecham English (emi) box. But,I need more time to absorb the 'main course',the Delius recordings;so I had a listen to the final cd,first. Anyway,I was curious to hear his emi recording of the 'Triumph of Neptune'.
The first two cds of the set are of the stereo recordings. The rest are mono. Judging by various reviews I have seen,there is a little controversy over the transfers.Apparently,they were done by Michael Dutton (according to one review,I read). Some people think his treatment of old recordings is too interventionist. Personally,I prefer the approach of Pearl,or even Symposium,at their best;but the transfers on cd 6 sounded good to my ears & 'Fifine at the Fair',in particular,sounded absolutely marvellous. A less interventionist approach,imho,brings more clarity & the sound seems to 'open out'. Some of Duttons transfers remove all the annoying surface noise & clicks,which on a superficial level,sounds great;but unfortunately,the result is a 'glassy',unnatural sound quality,which I don't like. On the other hand,you can have too many intrusive noises & I think the main issue is one of getting the balance right. I think Dutton goes too far,for my taste. Having said that,cd 6 sounded pretty good to me & the earlier transfers of Beechams mono recordings for emi are,apparently,only available on old Lps! (The Beecham edition cds used these transfers),so,unless I invest in a turntable,information like that is a fat load of use to me!
Either way,cd 6 sounded pretty good to my ears & at around,an amazing,£11,for 6 cds of Beechams Delian alchemy,this is one happy bunny!!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Sounds a good deal to me, cilgwyn!

[Mirror Image]

There is one extra reason why I like Beecham's Delius so much, I think - the fact that the recordings are historic gives them that added poignancy, apart from the fact that the way the orchestra sounds is unrepeatable. Those musicians are from Delius' time, or were born when he was old. But they are still part of a world that now is irrevocably gone. I don't think that special Delian magic will ever be so well captured again, because younger generations are simply not in touch anymore with the things that were meaningful to Delius. Whether this is peculiar to Delius or to all great but dead composers is an interesting question. I do think, though, that Delius' uniqueness is bound up with the times he lived through and that such a kind of artist was only then possible.

I think it's a bit presumptuous of you to assume the younger generations aren't in touch with things that were important to Delius. Any conductor worth their salt that chooses to conduct Delius already has an ear for the music or else they wouldn't be conducting the music in the first place. While Delius' music is out of fashion (besides the time he lived in was it ever in fashion?), he continues to get support from younger listeners. I'm one of them. I'm only 30 years old and I've loved his music instantly. Two other younger people (younger than myself) on this forum that love Delius are Daniel (madaboutmahler) and Ilaria (LisztianWagner). That's three people right there. Imagine if we were to take a tally in England alone? So I'm optimistic for this music's future.

Regarding Beecham, he's not the only conductor that has mattered to Delius' music. He obviously was important in getting him recognition, but with or without Beecham, he is still a one-of-kind composer. We all owe a debt of gratitude to Beecham though no question about it.

[cilgwyn]

Before anyone gets too excited,it was a bit more than that! Actually,£13,78). I mixed it up with the Meredith Davies 'A Village Romeo & Juliet' (earlier emi issue) which was around £11 & currently,still in the post!
My above posts relate to the mono recordings,not the stereo ones;which,incidentally,sound marvellous. The 6 cds,of the Beecham: English music come in one of those nice slim card boxes,so no problems with "sorry you were out" red cards. Of  course,these kind of cases are more subject to wear;but here's to the present,I say! The booklet mentions that Beecham premiered Bax's Fifth.I wish he'd recorded that! Oh,and 'Koanga',of course! Not to mention,Bantock's 'Witch of Atlas',or 'Pagan Symphony,instead of 'Fifine'. But,there we are;we've got to enjoy what we've got!

Now,if emi will reissue 'Hassan' & 'Fennimore & Gerda' separately. These multi cds sets can be nice to own;but their recent taste for reissuing recordings in this form is an annoying trend for people who just want a particular recording.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Quote from: Mirror Image on Today at 16:48:42

I think it's a bit presumptuous of you to assume the younger generations aren't in touch with things that were important to Delius. Any conductor worth their salt that chooses to conduct Delius already has an ear for the music or else they wouldn't be conducting the music in the first place. While Delius' music is out of fashion (besides the time he lived in was it ever in fashion?), he continues to get support from younger listeners. I'm one of them. I'm only 30 years old and I've loved his music instantly. Two other younger people (younger than myself) on this forum that love Delius are Daniel (madaboutmahler) and Ilaria (LisztianWagner). That's three people right there. Imagine if we were to take a tally in England alone? So I'm optimistic for this music's future.

Regarding Beecham, he's not the only conductor that has mattered to Delius' music. He obviously was important in getting him recognition, but with or without Beecham, he is still a one-of-kind composer. We all owe a debt of gratitude to Beecham though no question about it.



I am not judging, I am just observing. I am not talking about understanding the music, I am talking about the world it reflects. The world has changed more in the last 60 years than it did in the few thousand that preceded it. Most people live in cities, the rhythms of nature are not felt to the same extent as they were, light pollution blots out the stars, life has speeded up immeasurably et cetera... That's what I mean when I say Delius' world isn't ours anymore, not even mine (I am a city boy myself, and nature is a memory). I have noticed that conductors like Andrew Davis and Martyn Brabbins (of my own generation) have a much more sober and no-nonsense approach to music. There is a sense of spaciousness, of giving things time, that I notice in older recordings or in recordings by old conductors, which seems to be lost.

[cilgwyn]

I think it's a bit presumptuous of you to assume the younger generations aren't in touch with things that were important to Delius. Any conductor worth their salt that chooses to conduct Delius already has an ear for the music or else they wouldn't be conducting the music in the first place. While Delius' music is out of fashion (besides the time he lived in was it ever in fashion?), he continues to get support from younger listeners. I'm one of them. I'm only 30 years old and I've loved his music instantly. Two other younger people (younger than myself) on this forum that love Delius are Daniel (madaboutmahler) and Ilaria (LisztianWagner). That's three people right there. Imagine if we were to take a tally in England alone? So I'm optimistic for this music's future.

Regarding Beecham, he's not the only conductor that has mattered to Delius' music. He obviously was important in getting him recognition, but with or without Beecham, he is still a one-of-kind composer. We all owe a debt of gratitude to Beecham though no question about it.

Interesting points. Johan is probably more qualified to respond to them than me. Of course,Beecham was very wealthy & without his recordings it is possible that Delius might have dwindled away into the byways of musical history like Bantock,Scott & Holbrooke. You only have to think of all the recordings of Delius made during the first few decades of the last century. Without Beecham's efforts there wouldn't have been many recordings of Delius,let alone,major works like 'A Village Romeo & Juliet' or  the 'Mass Of Life'. Without these recordings & Beecham's advocacy the picture might well have been very different. In fact, I can't think of a similar case where a conductor has done so much in the way of promoting the cause of one single composer;although there may be others.
Having said that,there is no doubt in my mind that Delius's music has a universal appeal,range & depth which Bantock,Holbrooke & Scott,do not possess. Beecham,the man,has gone,but his recordings will live on & inspire a new generation of listeners and conductors.