I'm lost in Mahler/Brucker's music.

[Florestan]

All the answers you got are insightful and helpful, Bonehelm. But keep in mind one thing: despite all that, you might never get to like / love Mahler and Bruckner.

I personally like them and hope you will one day, too. But if you don't, this is not something to be ashamed or afraid of.

[Michel]

All the answers you got are insightful and helpful, Bonehelm. But keep in mind one thing: despite all that, you might never get to like / love Mahler and Bruckner.

I personally like them and hope you will one day, too. But if you don't, this is not something to be ashamed or afraid of.

Quite! I know someone who loves going about saying how much he hates Mahler! 

Maybe I would suggest Mahler 1 as an intro - it isn't very "modern", I don't think, and is just cool.

[Bruckner is God]

I have never understood why some people find Bruckner boring or difficult. For me it's the least boring music in the world. So emotional, powerful and unique.  You just have to listen very carefully and concentrate fully on the music, and you will be rewarded in the end.

[Grazioso]

I think Haydn is boring. All of his symphonies seem to follow the same pattern...and his music is so..balanced and carefully metered. I know that is classical period's style...but I prefer Mozart over him.

Actually, Mozart is the more obsessively balanced, predictable one in my experience. Haydn's the guy who likes to throw you a curve.

Have you listened to the talks on Bruckner and Mahler here http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discoveringmusic/audioarchive.shtml ? They might help you get a better grasp of what's going on in their music.

I have never understood why some people find Bruckner boring or difficult. For me it's the least boring music in the world. So emotional, powerful and unique.  You just have to listen very carefully and concentrate fully on the music, and you will be rewarded in the end.

I understand that reaction, though personally, I got into Mahler and Bruckner right at the start of my classical listening and never found them confusing or daunting (beyond the extreme lengths of the symphonies taxing my attention span at times). It's the classicists that took me a decade or more to warm to.

[DavidW]

People that hate predictability I guess don't listen to music more than once-- because that's all that separates unsuspected from predictable-- listen to it again and you know what to expect!

I think that people miss the point of Mahler and Brucker because it's less of a point and more of a surface.  Their works are incredibly complex, it's not just about length.  The evolution of the melodies, the polyphonic and highly chromatic nature of the harmonic structure, the subtle (and gross!) use of tonal shading with large orchestras, the less trivial rhythmic variety that adventurous conductors might bring to the music (no wonder some appreciate the uniformity of Horenstein)... it's a hell of alot to swallow!  It takes many repeated sessions of concentrated listening to appreciate either composer beyond the trivial sensualist level.  It's just a huge step up from Brahms.  Mahler, Bruckner (and Strauss) epitomize the breaking point of Romanticism-- where too much has been added and threatens the listener with works so broad that on first blush appear to be nearly featureless landscapes of musical notes.

The brevity, elegance, and balance that composers like Webern brought must have been like a breath of fresh air!   Nah, don't take that to be snarky, you know I love Mahler and Bruckner, I just want to put them into perspective to the listener new to them.

[Iago]

She still thinks Bach, Haydn and Mozart are boring (except the clarient quintet and a Kleiber DVD of Linz).

I'd very much like to meet your wife. We seem to have lots in common.

[Bonehelm]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll get myself a Mahler 1 and Bruckner 7 recording soon. I think I will go with Abaddo/Karajan/Bernstein.

[Cato]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll get myself a Mahler 1 and Bruckner 7 recording soon. I think I will go with Abaddo/Karajan/Bernstein.

The "new" Boulez recordig of the Mahler I and the classic Jochum performance on DGG for the Bruckner VII are also highly recommended!

[max]

The 7th symphony of Bruckner is a good place to start. I have at last count 5 different versions of this work. The one I'm most impressed with is the Georg Tintner version on Naxos. Not one of the most well known of conductors or orchestra [Royal Scottish National Orchestra] but one of the greatest recordings I know of the work! Tintner's finesse is incredible.
 

[mahlertitan]

The 7th symphony of Bruckner is a good place to start. I have at last count 5 different versions of this work. The one I'm most impressed with is the Georg Tintner version on Naxos. Not one of the most well known of conductors or orchestra [Royal Scottish National Orchestra] but one of the greatest recordings I know of the work! Tintner's finesse is incredible.
 

you should check out the one by Yannick Nezet-Seguin, Montreal Metropolitan Orchestra. exquisite performance,

[Choo Choo]

I bought this too recently:

I don't care for it.  It's a great recording but I just don't 'get' it like I do the eighth.

That recording is one of the fault lines that runs through Bruckner appreciation.  For some it's the gold standard, for others it's more like an obstacle in the path.  I am in the latter group.  It wasn't until I stopped trying to listen to that recording and found another I liked better, that the work really clicked for me.  It is very different from the 8th BTW:  you need different expectations - or better yet, none at all.

[71 dB]

I'm lost..(in the bad way) in Mahler/Brucker's music.

I haven't got their music either so don't worry. The most important thing is you get somebody's music. 

Instead of Mahler and Bruckner, I have got Elgar, the fantastic composer most people ignore without realising what they miss. I have also got Dittersdorf, Hasse, Buxtehude, Torke, Taneyev, Vanhal, Hofmann, Graupner, Fasch, Villa-Lobos, Granados, Fauré, Rameau, Charpentier, Marais, Puccini, etc.

Recently I tried to get Mahler but it's only okay music for me. It does not blow me away. Why should I worry if I am not into Mahler & Bruckner? They are only 2 composers! I have already far too many favorite composers to explore! 

[quintett op.57]

No, don't follow his advices! he's been dangerously elgarized.!!!

[Cato]

No, don't follow his advice! he's been dangerously elgarized.!!!

Cato says Amen to that!   0:)

Another idea: try listening to the Schumann Second Symphony and then compare it to Bruckner's Sixth Symphony.

Thou shalt be amazed!   0:)

[71 dB]

No, don't follow his advices! he's been dangerously elgarized.!!!

At least I am not Mahlerized or Brucknerized. 

[Cato]

At least I am not Mahlerized or Brucknerized. 

Maybe you should just be Mahlered!   

[71 dB]

Maybe you should just be Mahlered!   

I should be myselfed and everybody else should be themselved.

Find time to be yourself!

[mahlertitan]

I haven't got their music either so don't worry. The most important thing is you get somebody's music. 

Instead of Mahler and Bruckner, I have got Elgar, the fantastic composer most people ignore without realising what they miss. I have also got Dittersdorf, Hasse, Buxtehude, Torke, Taneyev, Vanhal, Hofmann, Graupner, Fasch, Villa-Lobos, Granados, Fauré, Rameau, Charpentier, Marais, Puccini, etc.

Recently I tried to get Mahler but it's only okay music for me. It does not blow me away. Why should I worry if I am not into Mahler & Bruckner? They are only 2 composers! I have already far too many favorite composers to explore! 

you should worry, because you like Dittersdorf more than Mozart.

every time you bring up Dittersdorf, it just cracks me up, maybe you should also include Ferdinand Reis, and say his music is better than that Of Beethoven's.

[Cato]

I should be myselfed and everybody else should be themselved.

Find time to be yourself!

I used to be myself, but they said that was illegal!  

And speaking of sick birds, the Cincinnati Symphony last autumn combined Messiaen with Mahler!

Two deeply spiritual composers with distinct musical vocabularies are the focus of concerts by Paavo Järvi and the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra on November 10 and 11 at 8 p.m. at Music Hall. The composers are Olivier Messiaen and Gustav Mahler, and their music is about journeys, transitions, earthly life and new dimensions.

Messiaen's L'Ascension: quatre méditations symphoniques (Ascension: Four Symphonic Meditations) was written in 1932-1933 in the composer's own iridescent musical language. The music reflects Messiaen's deep devotion to the Catholic faith. Mahler's ninth and final symphony, completed in 1910, was written while he was approaching the end of his life. (He died in 1911.) Mahler also sensed that his Ninth marked the end of a cultural and philosophical era.

"This program may move listeners to pause and reflect. One might even ask, 'how do these two pieces relate?'" said Paavo Järvi. "Mahler's Ninth is one of the most important pieces ever written. It represents Mahler facing the end of his own life and the end of the Romantic symphony, and finally, the composer's transition from earthly life to a spiritual state. Messiaen's piece uses a very different musical language and perspective to portray his interpretation of a journey to ascension."

http://www.cincinnatisymphony.org/Media/releases/mahler_messiane.asp

And the dithering about Dittersdorf is fun at times!   

[Bunny]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll get myself a Mahler 1 and Bruckner 7 recording soon. I think I will go with Abaddo/Karajan/Bernstein.

Try to find the Gielen Mahler 1 which is available from BMG Music club or Yourmusic.com.  It's probably one of the better ones out there and more structured interpretation as well as being quite cheap.  The other one to look for is the Kubelik.  Kubelik's performance on Audite is more exciting if less "perfect" being a live performance.  The sound on the newly remastered Audite series is also better than the studio sound of the Kubelik on DG.  Abbado is not the best choice when starting out -- he can bore a beginner to death.  Bernstein/Sony is better.  I don't have the Karajan Mahler 1 so I can't comment. I only have Karajan's recordings of the later Mahler symphonies.