Mahlerly Challenged

[Bogey]

Still have not learned to enjoy this composer's music.  I believe Hornteacher is also in this same boat....maybe others wallowing out there as well, but afraid to admit it.  We need your guidance in beginning to appreciate this composer's efforts.  Where do we start?  Facilitator positions now open.

[Bonehelm]

There is an exact same post made by myself in the same section. You could get some useful information there...and I guess you will just have to start listening to get familiar with the composer. Do you have any recordings of Mahler? If you don't, you can drop me a PM and I'll give you some links. (The links are provided by MahlerTitan btw).

I've been told to start with the #1 and #4 symphonies as a beginner.

Good luck with Mahler!

[Mahler Symphony]

Still have not learned to enjoy this composer's music.  I believe Hornteacher is also in this same boat....maybe others wallowing out there as well, but afraid to admit it.  We need your guidance in beginning to appreciate this composer's efforts.  Where do we start?  Facilitator positions now open.

Can you tell us what you have already listened to? (which symphonies and recordings)

[hornteacher]

Can you tell us what you have already listened to? (which symphonies and recordings)

I've only heard two Mahler pieces and it was a while back.  Titan Symphony was Abbado (which was good) and Symphony 2 was the other piece (can't remember the ensemble).  I just remember it being so LONG.  Mahler is on my list of composers to get to know better.  I'm trying to get through RV Williams first though.

[Bogey]

There is an exact same post made by myself in the same section. You could get some useful information there...and I guess you will just have to start listening to get familiar with the composer. Do you have any recordings of Mahler? If you don't, you can drop me a PM and I'll give you some links. (The links are provided by MahlerTitan btw).

I've been told to start with the #1 and #4 symphonies as a beginner.

Good luck with Mahler!

Thanks!

Can you tell us what you have already listened to? (which symphonies and recordings)

Here is what I have on the shelf:

Symph. No. 1 Urbank/Prague Festival Orchestra
Symph. No. 1 Slatking/St. Louis
Symph. Nos. 1 and 2 Bernstein/NYPO
Symph. No. 2 Slatking/St. Louis
Symph. No. 3 Bernstein/NYPO
Symph. No. 4 Tennstedt/LPO
Symph. No. 7 Bernstein/NYPO
Symph. No. 9 HvK/BPO-Live

[jochanaan]

Mahler is best experienced live. Failing that, though, it's best to schedule a block of time and just listen.  Unhook the phones, hire a babysitter or something, and enter his world.  You'll be surprised how the time flies.

[Bonehelm]

Mahler is best experienced live. Failing that, though, it's best to schedule a block of time and just listen.  Unhook the phones, hire a babysitter or something, and enter his world.  You'll be surprised how the time flies.

The problem is, most local ensembles don't quite have enough force or training to give a good Mahler performance...if you wait for major orchestras to travel to your city, that could take some time.

My local orchestra has like what...85 players?

[max]

Still have not learned to enjoy this composer's music.

Do you seriously expect a verbal explanation to supply any enjoyment or appreciation?? If you don't like the 'sound' of any specific composer then whatever he tried to convey in the music is immaterial. Aside from that, even if appreciated or much admired,  it's done according to the inner and private responses of the listener which are seldom alike as these forums consistently prove.

You have to experiment on your own and hope for a degree of empathy with the sound. There's no other way around it!

[jochanaan]

My local orchestra has like what...85 players?

That's enough to do justice to the Fourth and even the First, if the players are good enough.  I know; I played both those with my orchestra, which has even fewer players.  (Well, we did have to import three extra horn players for the First.)

[dtwilbanks]

Still have not learned to enjoy this composer's music.  I believe Hornteacher is also in this same boat....maybe others wallowing out there as well, but afraid to admit it.  We need your guidance in beginning to appreciate this composer's efforts.  Where do we start?  Facilitator positions now open.

#1 

[mahlertitan]

nothing wrong so far, but i am a bit alarmed that you haven't heard the fifth.

i think it helps if you learn a little about mahler first(if you haven't already), here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Mahler

[PerfectWagnerite]

Thanks!

Here is what I have on the shelf:

Symph. No. 1 Urbank/Prague Festival Orchestra
Symph. No. 1 Slatking/St. Louis
Symph. Nos. 1 and 2 Bernstein/NYPO
Symph. No. 2 Slatking/St. Louis
Symph. No. 3 Bernstein/NYPO
Symph. No. 4 Tennstedt/LPO
Symph. No. 7 Bernstein/NYPO
Symph. No. 9 HvK/BPO-Live

Haven't heard Urbank, but all the others I have and they are excellent so you should be able to enjoy Mahle from them. One thing I find helpful is that do not try to compare Mahler with anybody else because there is nobody like him, and forget about form and structure and just listen to his sound world. Listen to his orchestration and astonishing use of percussion and weird choise of solo instruments (basses in #2, trombone and bass drum in #3, baritone horn in #7, etc.).

[Heather Harrison]

Mahler is best experienced live. Failing that, though, it's best to schedule a block of time and just listen.  Unhook the phones, hire a babysitter or something, and enter his world.  You'll be surprised how the time flies.

I'm fortunate that I live in a city that has a good Mahler orchestra (the Utah Symphony), and they make a point of performing at least one of his major works each season.  This year, it was the Seventh Symphony - an incredible performance of a work that is, unfortunately, often misunderstood.  Evidently, the audience "got" it; the performance received enthusiastic applause and an immediate standing ovation.

Yes, it is amazing how time flies when I do just what Jochanaan suggests; even a lengthy piece such as the Third Symphony never gets boring for me when I drop everything else and just listen.  This is the best way to connect with Mahler's music.  I would recommend trying this with one of the easier pieces (the First or the Fourth, as others have recommended).  If you happen to make the connection (and enjoy the experience), then you will likely become curious and will move on to the other symphonies and song cycles, and you might even become interested in how the works connect to each other.  If not, then perhaps Mahler isn't to your taste.  I know people who otherwise love classical music of many time periods but have not been able to connect with Mahler.  Often, the problem is the massive scale of the music and the orchestral forces; a common criticism is that Mahler has pushed the envelope too far.  The same criticisms can potentially apply to Wagner.  I, personally, don't think Mahler (or Wagner, for that matter) has gone too far, but he has perhaps pushed things right to the edge.  I cannot imagine orchestral or choral music being a lot more massive than Mahler's without becoming a muddled mess, except perhaps in the hands of a great genius.

I have found Mahler to be worth the effort of serious listening.  If you give his music a good try, you might also find it worth the effort.  There is only one way to find out...

Heather

[Bogey]

Mahler is best experienced live. Failing that, though, it's best to schedule a block of time and just listen.  Unhook the phones, hire a babysitter or something, and enter his world.  You'll be surprised how the time flies.

Excellent point here.  I tried earlier to listen to Symphony No. 1 while cleaning up after dinner and while the kiddos were playing.....no dice.

[Bogey]

Haven't heard Urbank, but all the others I have and they are excellent so you should be able to enjoy Mahle from them. One thing I find helpful is that do not try to compare Mahler with anybody else because there is nobody like him, and forget about form and structure and just listen to his sound world. Listen to his orchestration and astonishing use of percussion and weird choise of solo instruments (basses in #2, trombone and bass drum in #3, baritone horn in #7, etc.).

You probably are not missing much, as even I find it a weak perfomance beside Lenny and Slatkin.  Nice insights....we'll do.

[Bogey]

nothing wrong so far, but i am a bit alarmed that you haven't heard the fifth.

i think it helps if you learn a little about mahler first(if you haven't already), here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Mahler

I will look out for the 5th.  Without strarting a new thread, will Lenny do here?

[Bogey]

I'm fortunate that I live in a city that has a good Mahler orchestra (the Utah Symphony), and they make a point of performing at least one of his major works each season.  This year, it was the Seventh Symphony - an incredible performance of a work that is, unfortunately, often misunderstood.  Evidently, the audience "got" it; the performance received enthusiastic applause and an immediate standing ovation.

Yes, it is amazing how time flies when I do just what Jochanaan suggests; even a lengthy piece such as the Third Symphony never gets boring for me when I drop everything else and just listen.  This is the best way to connect with Mahler's music.  I would recommend trying this with one of the easier pieces (the First or the Fourth, as others have recommended).  If you happen to make the connection (and enjoy the experience), then you will likely become curious and will move on to the other symphonies and song cycles, and you might even become interested in how the works connect to each other.  If not, then perhaps Mahler isn't to your taste.  I know people who otherwise love classical music of many time periods but have not been able to connect with Mahler.  Often, the problem is the massive scale of the music and the orchestral forces; a common criticism is that Mahler has pushed the envelope too far.  The same criticisms can potentially apply to Wagner.  I, personally, don't think Mahler (or Wagner, for that matter) has gone too far, but he has perhaps pushed things right to the edge.  I cannot imagine orchestral or choral music being a lot more massive than Mahler's without becoming a muddled mess, except perhaps in the hands of a great genius.

I have found Mahler to be worth the effort of serious listening.  If you give his music a good try, you might also find it worth the effort.  There is only one way to find out...

Heather

The 3rd it is....possibly this weekend so I can give it my FULL attention.

[Bogey]

Do you seriously expect a verbal explanation to supply any enjoyment or appreciation?? If you don't like the 'sound' of any specific composer then whatever he tried to convey in the music is immaterial. Aside from that, even if appreciated or much admired,  it's done according to the inner and private responses of the listener which are seldom alike as these forums consistently prove.

You have to experiment on your own and hope for a degree of empathy with the sound. There's no other way around it!

I do not disagree with your route here....for some.  However, for me, I have found in a number of cases (Bach and Sibelius to name two) that if I keep coming back to a composer that seems to be "just a bit out of reach", then eventually something clicks.  Sometimes it is a simple story about the music, or an insight of what to listen for.  Sometimes, it is just listening to a piece at the right time, while in the proper mood, that brings a composer to the forfront of my listening world (this happened with Brahm's for me).  So, any insight or direction in listening I am open to, as it may cause that first crack that allows me to eventually enjoy a composer at a higher level and much, (I will not say all) of what they have to offer.  But your point is well taken at this end and appreciated.

[mahlertitan]

I will look out for the 5th.  Without strarting a new thread, will Lenny do here?

The fifth is a tricky one, i have many recordings, and the only one that i find is good is Solti/Chicago.

[Mahler Symphony]

I will look out for the 5th.  Without strarting a new thread, will Lenny do here?

I don't think so. I've never really liked Bernstein's recording with the Vienna Philharmonic, and his performance with the New York Philharmonic has to be one of the worst recordings of this symphony.

Here's my personal recommendation :
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No5-Gustav/dp/B00000DHJ1/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/103-1478130-9322207?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1179894464&sr=8-3