What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

Started by Bonehelm, May 24, 2007, 08:52:55 AM

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71 dB

Quote from: krummholz on February 26, 2023, 05:18:51 AMThat is doable - I don't own a soldering iron but have access at work. However, on second thought, trying to work a hack to use a good pair of headphones with my old Sony amp is probably not a good strategy as the amp is very likely on its last legs anyway - if the power is interrupted even briefly, output is badly distorted for about 5-10 minutes of play afterward. This problem occurred several years ago, and was traced to a bad capacitor by an audio shop. They replaced it, but the fact that it has gone bad again indicates this is probably a losing battle in the long run.

Okay.

Quote from: krummholz on February 26, 2023, 05:18:51 AMAudio Science Review gives the Corda Jazz a resounding thumbs down. And from the pictures, it apparently has no equalizer panel. I am not married to the idea of a headphone amp - a decent full amp with equalizer and headphone jack is something I'd be willing to invest a few $100 in. I just don't know the quality of the stuff that is out there today - obviously I have not made an amp purchase in... well, 50 years.

That review is perhaps too harsh. The newer FF model seems to be better and the test were done with 300 Ω headphones. 50 Ω headphones suffer less from the voltage limitations.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

71 dB

Quote from: DavidW on February 26, 2023, 06:09:54 AMI honestly didn't think crossfeed made that much of a difference. 

It takes time to realize the benefits (reduced listening fatique). Music mixed for speakers is most of the time very unnatural with headphones because the channel separation is too large. It just takes effort to realize this because we learn headphone sound and take the problems for granted. Crossfeed is not a WOW-thing, on the contrary! Crossfed sound can appear flat before one learns to appreciate the more natural aspects of it. That said, crossfeed is not for everybody. I can't listen to headphones without it, but people hear spatiality differently so it is different for everyone.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

71 dB

#2342
Quote from: 71 dB on February 12, 2023, 12:22:34 PMThe disc trays of my main CD player (NAD C-565BEE) and my old CD player (Denon DCD-735) are both working poorly. I ordered new rubber belts for both players from Portugal based WebSpareParts.com.

belts.png

The belts arrived today. It took maybe an extra week, because just after my order our harbours went on strike slowing down the delivery.  :(

EDIT: I changed the belt of Denon DCD-735. First test showed improved operation, but the main problem remained (the disc tray doesn't stay open. It closes immediately after opening. I suspected the switch that indicates that the tray has opened. I inspected it and noticed it has bent. So I fixed that and now the CD player works! Hurrah!
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: 71 dB on February 27, 2023, 07:52:37 AMThe belts arrived today. It took maybe an extra week, because just after my order our harbours went on strike slowing down the delivery.  :(

EDIT: I changed the belt of Denon DCD-735. First test showed improved operation, but the main problem remained (the disc tray doesn't stay open. It closes immediately after opening. I suspected the switch that indicates that the tray has opened. I inspected it and noticed it has bent. So I fixed that and now the CD player works! Hurrah!
Well done you!  And congrats!

PD

Valentino

#2344
Updated system in it's 13th year. The MiniDSP Flex Eight has replaced a RME Fireface UC sound card and a PC running PLparEQ under Console. Click the attachment for details.
I love music. Sadly, I'm an audiophile too.
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Yamaha | MiniDSP | WiiM | Topping | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

Spotted Horses

Quote from: 71 dB on February 26, 2023, 08:48:43 AMIt takes time to realize the benefits (reduced listening fatique). Music mixed for speakers is most of the time very unnatural with headphones because the channel separation is too large. It just takes effort to realize this because we learn headphone sound and take the problems for granted. Crossfeed is not a WOW-thing, on the contrary! Crossfed sound can appear flat before one learns to appreciate the more natural aspects of it. That said, crossfeed is not for everybody. I can't listen to headphones without it, but people hear spatiality differently so it is different for everyone.

I have a headphone amp with cross-feed and do notice a subtle advantage, but needed something with a bit more oomph and have found it impossible to find practical hardware with cross-feed. It would be natural to do cross-feed in software, since 100% of the time I am streaming FLAC files from my computer, but have failed to find a media player for which I can find some sort of cross-feed feature or plugin.

71 dB

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 27, 2023, 02:08:58 PMWell done you!  And congrats!

PD
Thanks, but this wasn't super hard. It could have been a more difficult problem outside my skills. You never know until you try. Now I have my main CD player to fix and who knows how difficult that is.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

71 dB

Quote from: Spotted Horses on February 27, 2023, 05:36:43 PMI have a headphone amp with cross-feed and do notice a subtle advantage, but needed something with a bit more oomph and have found it impossible to find practical hardware with cross-feed. It would be natural to do cross-feed in software, since 100% of the time I am streaming FLAC files from my computer, but have failed to find a media player for which I can find some sort of cross-feed feature or plugin.

https://www.foobar2000.org/components/tag/crossfeed
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Daverz

Quote from: 71 dB on February 26, 2023, 08:48:43 AMIt takes time to realize the benefits (reduced listening fatique). Music mixed for speakers is most of the time very unnatural with headphones because the channel separation is too large. It just takes effort to realize this because we learn headphone sound and take the problems for granted. Crossfeed is not a WOW-thing, on the contrary! Crossfed sound can appear flat before one learns to appreciate the more natural aspects of it. That said, crossfeed is not for everybody. I can't listen to headphones without it, but people hear spatiality differently so it is different for everyone.

I've been doing my serious 'phone listening with IEMs (TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero).  I wonder if this would make a difference since the pinnae are "bypassed".  I did see someone on github had a CamillaDSP crossfeed setup.  I may try setting that up on an unused Raspberry Pi I have. 

https://github.com/Wang-Yue/camilladsp-crossfeed

71 dB

#2349
Quote from: Daverz on February 28, 2023, 02:41:12 AMI've been doing my serious 'phone listening with IEMs (TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero).  I wonder if this would make a difference since the pinnae are "bypassed".  I did see someone on github had a CamillaDSP crossfeed setup.  I may try setting that up on an unused Raspberry Pi I have. 

https://github.com/Wang-Yue/camilladsp-crossfeed

I don't use IEM's myself. The pinnae are bypassed, but this doesn't matter much because over ear headphones don't use pinnae the way it is supposed to be used (sounds coming from different angles disriminated). As crossfeed is just a simple simulation of how the sound from two stereo speakers come to both ears, headphone type doesn't really matter. Crossfeed is essentially a channel separation scaler. Speakers need larger channel separation than headphones because the listening set-up creates an acoustic crossfeeder and music is generally mixed taking that into account.

It is possible to mix music so that it works well on both speakers and headphones, but only some new music is mixed that way and most stereophonic music contain unnaturally large channel separation for headphones. At low frequencies the natural interaural level difference (ILD) is only a few decibels!* In stereophonic recordings ILD is almost always much larger than that.

* At low frequencies spatial hearing is based on delay difference rather level difference. On headphones low frequency sounds can be pan-orated on the far left for example by delaying the right ear signal by about 600-700 microseconds. If the level of the right ear is also dropped by -3 dB compared to left ear, the spatial cues are pretty good.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Spotted Horses

Quote from: 71 dB on February 28, 2023, 12:46:53 AMhttps://www.foobar2000.org/components/tag/crossfeed

Duh, how did I miss that? I even have foobar2000 installed on my computer. I will try it out. I notice it has only one adjustment parameter (cross-feed level) so I guess the cross-feed delay is not adjustable to suit the size of your head. (Maybe that's a blessing, one less parameter I don't know how to set.)

71 dB

Quote from: Spotted Horses on March 01, 2023, 10:13:23 AMDuh, how did I miss that? I even have foobar2000 installed on my computer. I will try it out. I notice it has only one adjustment parameter (cross-feed level) so I guess the cross-feed delay is not adjustable to suit the size of your head. (Maybe that's a blessing, one less parameter I don't know how to set.)


The delay isn't actually for head size, but for simulated speaker angle. Those things are of course related: Large head means one experiences a bit smaller speaker angle and vice versa, but the difference isn't huge. Crossfeeders typically use ITD of about 250 µs corresponding about ±30° speaker angles.

The crossfeed level is more relevant, because recordings have different spatiality: Some rare recordings don't need crossfeed at all while some other brutally hard-panned recordings need very strong crossfeed.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Valentino

That's interesting. My speakers are set very wide compared to the typical like sided triangle. The triangle top is close to 100 degrees so the base line angles are in the very low 40s. Enormous headphones!
I love music. Sadly, I'm an audiophile too.
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Yamaha | MiniDSP | WiiM | Topping | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

DavidW

Quote from: Valentino on March 02, 2023, 10:39:56 AMThat's interesting. My speakers are set very wide compared to the typical like sided triangle. The triangle top is close to 100 degrees so the base line angles are in the very low 40s. Enormous headphones!

Wow that is enormous!  I personally don't like the usual equilateral triangle arrangement, and want more blending.  I use a more narrow angle.

Valentino

#2354
Should add that my speakers are placed 2 m from the side walls and 1 m from the front wall and close to true dipoles, and the rear wall is 5 m behind the listening position. All spatial info is direct sound from the speakers. Enormous 'phones as already stated.
I love music. Sadly, I'm an audiophile too.
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Yamaha | MiniDSP | WiiM | Topping | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

Harry

Decided after some listening sessions of the Lumin T3 streamer, not to take this model, because of a disappointing DAC, instead I am opting for the new U2 without a DAC, and use the DAC of my Esoteric SACD player which is far superior to the DAC of the T3. Plus the fact that I do not have to buy an extra set of interlinks, Nordost, Vahalla II. Saves an enormous amount of money. Plus after hearing the U2 I concluded it even sounded better as the T3. So its an ongoing journey. :)
I've always had great respect for Paddington because he is amusingly English and a eccentric bear He is a great British institution and emits great wisdom with every growl. Of course I have Paddington at home, he is a member of the family, sure he is from the moment he was born. We have adopted him.

71 dB

#2356
Quote from: Valentino on March 02, 2023, 10:39:56 AMMy speakers are set very wide compared to the typical like sided triangle. The triangle top is close to 100 degrees so the base line angles are in the very low 40s. Enormous headphones!

Don't you have a "gap" in the middle of the soundstage? Do you get good reproduction of sounds mixed in the center or does it feel almost all sound is on the left and right?

The correct speaker angle is the one that gives an uniform soundtage that feels equally "thick" from left speaker to right speakers. Room acoustics, listening position, Speaker "toe in" angle* and speaker type (directivity) affects what angle works best, but ±30° is a good starting point. Larger, more directive speakers may require smaller angle than small less directive speakers.

* Speaker toe in angle is an overlooked method of fine-tuning audio systems. It isn't marketed anywhere, because no money is to be made from it. It costs nothing to turn your speakers toward or away from each other. It only requires spending the time trying out which toe in angle gives the best soundstage. Zero toe in angle is the one where the speakers point at the listener and the sides of the speakers can't be seen. Positive toe in angle is the one where the speaker axes cross each other in front of the listener and outer sides of the speakers are seen a little bit. This tends to give more focused, sharper soundstage that is closer to headphone sound. Negative toe in angle makes the speaker axes cross behind the listener giving a more diffuse/softer soundtage. A simple and cost-free way to fine-tune your speaker sound to your liking soundstage-wise if one is willing to spend some time on it. Speaker/listener placement is another very important thing, but can be more challenging if the placement of speakers and listening place are limited to a certain points in the listening room due to other furnitures and decorational aestetics.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

71 dB

Quote from: Harry on March 03, 2023, 01:43:17 AMDecided after some listening sessions of the Lumin T3 streamer, not to take this model, because of a disappointing DAC, instead I am opting for the new U2 without a DAC, and use the DAC of my Esoteric SACD player which is far superior to the DAC of the T3. Plus the fact that I do not have to buy an extra set of interlinks, Nordost, Vahalla II. Saves an enormous amount of money. Plus after hearing the U2 I concluded it even sounded better as the T3. So its an ongoing journey. :)

Surprising that an audio device of that price point has got a disappointing DAC in 2023. It is not the 80's anymore when "disappointing" DACs actually existed. Are you sure the cause of your disappointment is the DAC and not something else?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

71 dB

Quote from: Valentino on March 02, 2023, 11:38:50 AMShould add that my speakers are placed 2 m from the side walls and 1 m from the front wall and close to true dipoles, and the rear wall is 5 m behind the listening position. All spatial info is direct sound from the speakers. Enormous 'phones as already stated.

Dipole speakers radiate almost everything forward and backward so the side walls aren't a big issue. You may want to test if increasing the distance to the front wall improves things (1 m might be okay). The soundstage should indeed feel headphone-like, but do you really want that? Usually people want to make their headphones sound more like speakers, not the other way around...
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Harry

Quote from: 71 dB on March 03, 2023, 03:21:14 AMSurprising that an audio device of that price point has got a disappointing DAC in 2023. It is not the 80's anymore when "disappointing" DACs actually existed. Are you sure the cause of your disappointment is the DAC and not something else?

I have to rephrase "disappointing DAC" the DAC of the T3 is very good for its price level Poju, but my SACD player is the best Esoteric built, thus the DAC is so much better as the one in the T3, so I am going to use that DAC instead. The U2 streamer by Lumin is just released, I was invited to the introduction of this model in the Netherlands, and impressed by it.
I've always had great respect for Paddington because he is amusingly English and a eccentric bear He is a great British institution and emits great wisdom with every growl. Of course I have Paddington at home, he is a member of the family, sure he is from the moment he was born. We have adopted him.