What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

[Fëanor]

My toolchain is:

• REW and a Umik-1 mic to measure the impulse response of my system + room.
• DRC-FIR to generate the room correction filters.
• brutefir and the BrutefirDRC plugin as the convolution engine on my Squeezebox server (running on Ubuntu).

I described my procedure in a post at ASR, which probably needs some updating.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/room-measurement-tutorial-for-dummies-part-2.5/page-9#post-163964

There are other free options to generate the filters, like rePhase and PORC, and commercial ones like Acourate or Audiolense.

Also, many other music players and servers provide convolution engines, like Volumnio, Roon, Foobar, etc.

That's great information.  Thanks very much, I'll be checking it out thoroughly.

Maybe you could set me straight on one point:  I had the impression the REV could generate a FIR file as well as impulse response data.  Is this not so?

[aligreto]

This is the Quad gear I'd love to have



The ESL-2812 electrostatic speakers.  I've heard a similar model at my local audio salon crammed into one of their smaller rooms, and they still sounded great.

I hope that you ultimately achieve your goal Dave. I own a pair of ESL 63s and they sound wonderful especially when driven by valves. I have not heard the ESL-2812 electrostatic speakers but the provenance is certainly recommendable.

[Daverz]

That's great information.  Thanks very much, I'll be checking it out thoroughly.

Maybe you could set me straight on one point:  I had the impression the REV could generate a FIR file as well as impulse response data.  Is this not so?

I'll have to look into that.  The procedure I'm aware of involves generating a set of correction filter definitions in REW, exporting that as XML, and then loading it into rePhase to generate the FIR filter.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30035-using-rew-and-rephase-to-generate-amplitude-and-time-domain-corrections/?tab=comments#comment-604260

[Irons]

Nice toy! (Although I admit that I've never quite liked the look of QUAD equipment. So chunky...
Do you hear a distinct difference to your other player?

Bass. Although Quad are best known for mid-range it is deeper bass that is most noticeable.

I am most impressed with the build quality of this deck. It did cross my mind to investigate the sister 99 Pre-amp which has a phono input for both MC and MM. I presently have an all valve/tube based system and my present Pre sounds great but is, I must admit, an ugly piece of kit (two boxes). The sleeker lines of the Quad would go down very well with the better half. Would a transistor Pre work with a valve Power I wonder?

[Irons]

Congratulations and I hope that it gives you many years of pleasurable listening.

Cheers, Aligreto.

[aligreto]

Bass. Although Quad are best known for mid-range it is deeper bass that is most noticeable.

I am most impressed with the build quality of this deck. It did cross my mind to investigate the sister 99 Pre-amp which has a phono input for both MC and MM. I presently have an all valve/tube based system and my present Pre sounds great but is, I must admit, an ugly piece of kit (two boxes). The sleeker lines of the Quad would go down very well with the better half. Would a transistor Pre work with a valve Power I wonder?

Some say that this combination actually gives a better balance.

[Irons]

I hope that you ultimately achieve your goal Dave. I own a pair of ESL 63s and they sound wonderful especially when driven by valves. I have not heard the ESL-2812 electrostatic speakers but the provenance is certainly recommendable.

Len Gregory AKA "The Cartridge Man" used (still does far as I know) a pair of Quad ESL 63s hooked up to a pair of ancient refurbished BBC house valve amplifiers. An unusual set-up with each amp on the floor next to the ESL 63 it is driving connected by the shortest possible speaker leads and long interconnect lead to Pre (I cannot recall which). The sound was magnificent.

[Harry]

Len Gregory AKA "The Cartridge Man" used (still does far as I know) a pair of Quad ESL 63s hooked up to a pair of ancient refurbished BBC house valve amplifiers. An unusual set-up with each amp on the floor next to the ESL 63 it is driving connected by the shortest possible speaker leads and long interconnect lead to Pre (I cannot recall which). The sound was magnificent.

I still have a pair of ESL 63s, refurbished by Quad, and Quad valve amplifiers, which have to be refurbished. I can attest to the quality of sound, which is indeed fantastic.

[Mandryka]

People say that esl63s are too inefficient to drive with old valve amps, which tend to have low output. The Quad II was built for the ESL 57. The amp that Quad built with the 63 in mind is a transistor amp, the 306. I'm sure that there are excellent, powerful and very expensive modern valve amps which can do the job. And the truth is you can never tell how an amp will be with a speaker till you try it, a low output we'll designed power amp may well have enough grip to drive 63s, I'd love to hear 63s with some of the older more powerful Radford amps, for example.

I have a pair of 63s and I have a 306, but in fact I've never tried them together - I may just do that tonight!

Re the 2812, I haven't heard them, but some people certainly report that the quality is better from older quads, though you don't get as much of a bass response. On the other hand I have a friend with 2912s which he rates very highly.

It's not easy to move a lot of air with electrostatics. For that reason you may consider the bass in the 63s or 57s satisfactory. Or you may want to explore using subwoofers, which is what I've done.

It's important to try before you buy. Properly set up the 63s do something very distinctive which the 2812s may do or may not, your dealer or Quad themselves should be able to tell you: they project the sound in a way which creates the image about 30cm behind the panels. You will either love it or loathe it, I have a friend who can't stand it, he says it's like listening to music through a postbox!

I said properly set up, but this is not easy. With ESLs as with all great hi fi, you have to design the room around the system, not the system around the room.

[staxomega]

I have Wayne Picquet rebuilt 57s in a second system, and I owned Estat Solutions rebuilt 63 in the past.

I personally prefer the sound of the 57 even if they are more limited in what they can do compared to the 63. But when I had 63 I felt they were limited as well. So far a custom built set of constant directivity waveguide/horn speakers are the only ones that I have heard that match the midrange of the 57. Even the full range Sound Labs that I've heard several times sound too clinical or dry compared to the 57.

For piano and chamber music the 57 and 63 are among the best speakers I have ever heard. My main system has Harbeths since they are in my other place's living room and my wife prefers more normal looking speakers, but the midrange on them absolutely pales compared to the 57.

[Mandryka]

I have Wayne Picquet rebuilt 57s in a second system, and I owned Estat Solutions rebuilt 63 in the past.

I personally prefer the sound of the 57 even if they are more limited in what they can do compared to the 63. But when I had 63 I felt they were limited as well. So far a custom built set of constant directivity waveguide/horn speakers are the only ones that I have heard that match the midrange of the 57. Even the full range Sound Labs that I've heard several times sound too clinical or dry compared to the 57.

For piano and chamber music the 57 and 63 are among the best speakers I have ever heard. My main system has Harbeths since they are in my other place's living room and my wife prefers more normal looking speakers, but the midrange on them absolutely pales compared to the 57.

Have you tried modern LS3/59s, ones like Falcon Acoustics?  Everyone says what you say about 57s, but I believe that good LS3/59s are very fine too in midrange.

[staxomega]

Have you tried modern LS3/59s, ones like Falcon Acoustics?  Everyone says what you say about 57s, but I believe that good LS3/59s are very fine too in midrange.

I haven't heard them. My Harbeths are big ones, the Super HL5 (one revision before the Plus), I wanted them to play louder than the Quads and have better bass extension which is why I was looking for larger than the well known BBC models.

I was considering their LS3/5a kits when I was looking for speakers for my office, I ended up going with JBL LSR306 MK2.

If anyone here doesn't mind active speakers (using digital crossovers) I would suggest hearing Dutch and Dutch 8c, I have heard from several people I trust that they are the best speakers they have heard for classical. There is a dealer in London that has them, I think he is happy to audition them for people even if they aren't in the market to buy.

[petrarch]

With ESLs as with all great hi fi, you have to design the room around the system, not the system around the room.

This is so true. From room dimensions to construction materials the room can make or break a system. Diffusion alleviates some of this.

they project the sound in a way which creates the image about 30cm behind the panels. You will either love it or loathe it, I have a friend who can't stand it, he says it's like listening to music through a postbox!

As long as the width of the soundstage isn't the width of a postbox ... Or are you referring to the focused image of an individual instrument?

It's not easy to move a lot of air with electrostatics. For that reason you may consider the bass in the 63s or 57s satisfactory. Or you may want to explore using subwoofers, which is what I've done.

I had a pair of Martin Logan hybrids and I am not sure if it was the crossover, the fact that they were hybrids, or even the panel itself, but they gave the sound a certain plasticky character. The thought of having to supplement panels such as the CLS with subwoofers always put me off pure electrostatics and I have since moved on to full range ribbon planars.

[aligreto]

People say that esl63s are too inefficient to drive with old valve amps, which tend to have low output. The Quad II was built for the ESL 57. The amp that Quad built with the 63 in mind is a transistor amp, the 306. I'm sure that there are excellent, powerful and very expensive modern valve amps which can do the job. And the truth is you can never tell how an amp will be with a speaker till you try it, a low output we'll designed power amp may well have enough grip to drive 63s, I'd love to hear 63s with some of the older more powerful Radford amps, for example.

I have a pair of 63s and I have a 306, but in fact I've never tried them together - I may just do that tonight!

Re the 2812, I haven't heard them, but some people certainly report that the quality is better from older quads, though you don't get as much of a bass response. On the other hand I have a friend with 2912s which he rates very highly.

It's not easy to move a lot of air with electrostatics. For that reason you may consider the bass in the 63s or 57s satisfactory. Or you may want to explore using subwoofers, which is what I've done.

It's important to try before you buy. Properly set up the 63s do something very distinctive which the 2812s may do or may not, your dealer or Quad themselves should be able to tell you: they project the sound in a way which creates the image about 30cm behind the panels. You will either love it or loathe it, I have a friend who can't stand it, he says it's like listening to music through a postbox!

I said properly set up, but this is not easy. With ESLs as with all great hi fi, you have to design the room around the system, not the system around the room.

I eventually ended up having to mark the floor with tape in order to preserve exact positioning after much micro tweeking!

[aligreto]

I have a friend who has a stacked 57's setup very similar to this....





Admittedly he has a large house and a very tolerant wife. I forget what they are driven by, certainly low wattage valves, but they sound wonderful, particularly with jazz and acoustic music.

[Irons]

I eventually ended up having to mark the floor with tape in order to preserve exact positioning after much micro tweeking!

Audiophilia is a terrible and costly ailment of which there is no known cure! 

[Harry]

I forgot to say that I have on my ceiling the Quad II valves. In original boxes. Will send them out for servicing, and use them again with my ESL'S

[Mandryka]

I forgot to say that I have on my ceiling the Quad II valves. In original boxes. Will send them out for servicing, and use them again with my ESL'S

I think you mean "in your attic ", though I do know someone who built speakers into the ceiling for better bass response.

[Harry]

I think you mean "in your attic ", though I do know someone who built speakers into the ceiling for better bass response.

I have the system stored neatly in the attic, yes, ceiling was the wrong word, but someone was installing a new ceiling in my house, so hence the wrong association 

[Artem]

Has anyone had any experience with Denon mini systems? I'm thinking about getting a smaller system with just two speakers, which could give good sound.