A New Defense of Mendelssohn

Started by Homo Aestheticus, February 02, 2009, 08:37:51 PM

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karlhenning

Quote from: erato on February 04, 2009, 03:53:46 AM
Because any composer being Brahms, would belong in the top ten!

That's Casey Kasem talking!


Florestan

Quote from: Gabriel on February 04, 2009, 03:13:02 AM
I think that the problem with Mendelssohn was to be too fond of "good taste" while composing (and probably while living), a concept that has been always dismissed when thinking of the period when he was active. While I appreciate and admire works written under the concept of evident, straight and sometimes excessive "romanticism", I do not forget that a different approach is not just possible, but also needed; in Mendelssohn's works you can feel tension, suffering and drama, but with a delicacy that is not always easy to grasp and with a remarkable sense of form and balance. I will probably never consider Mendelssohn the greatest composer ever, but he is for me one of the truly great ones.

Excellent post.
"Ja, sehr komisch, hahaha,
ist die Sache, hahaha,
drum verzeihn Sie, hahaha,
wenn ich lache, hahaha! "

Haffner

Quote from: karlhenning on February 04, 2009, 04:49:38 AM
That's Casey Kasem talking!




Eek! The resounding voice from my youth "..and now, Bruce Springsteen talks about how he came up with the idea for 'Blinded by the Light'..."

It's interesting to me, that there would be a thread positing a "defense of the composer of Elijah, as well as one of the most awe-inspiring Violin Concertos ever, string quartets, und so weiter. I won't attempt to spell his name, I always get it wrong (laughing).

ChamberNut

Quote from: Brian on February 03, 2009, 08:59:09 PM
I just got back from a live performance of Mendelssohn's Octet, maybe my all-time favorite chamber work, with Cho-Liang Lin in the first violin spot. Amazing!  :o It was standing-room only, and I had to stand, but it was electrifying. What a joyous work - the pure joy I felt was matched only by the desperate sadness of the fact that most of us will never, ever in our lives achieve something as purely glorious, as beautifully triumphant, as the work this guy wrote when he was only 16 years old.  :( :( :) :)

In fact, one could argue that Mendelssohn himself never again attained the heights of his Octet; I also got to hear both of his quintets, and the finales of each seemed to be efforts to "recapture the magic" of the Octet, but without the success.

Brian,

Last year, two of the most enjoyable of all live chamber music performances I've attended (on separate occasions) were a) The Octet WOW! :) and b) String Quartet No. 2 in A minor, Op. 13.

The Octet performed live was incredibly electrifying (to borrow your words, Brian ;)).  While the cellists were seated during the performance, the other 6 string players were all standing.  You could really tell all 8 performers were really, really into the piece, were passionate about playing it and it showed so much in the performance.  :)

Josquin des Prez

Quote from: karlhenning on February 04, 2009, 02:51:24 AM
He's not Brahms, and why need he be?

Come on now, don't get disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable. Surely, i would think that something like "technical profusion" is a value that can be objectively measured. 

karlhenning

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on February 04, 2009, 05:40:05 AM
Come on now, don't get disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable. Surely, i would think that something like "technical profusion" is a value that can be objectively measured. 

You very sensibly cast that gibberish in scare-quotes.  Which, naturally, makes your remark about the gibberish being "objectively measured" even funnier.

Thank you for being amusing for the sake of being amusing!

jlaurson

If Mozart's biography reads as though the timpani-strokes from his Requiem are already sounding faintly in the background, Mendelssohn's has the soundtrack of his Midsummer Night's Dream running through it: Happy, lovely, pleasant, well mannered. Mozart, apart from his few innocent Wunderkind-years, was crude, reckless, annoying, broke, borderline delusional—and always at the brink of failure. Mendelssohn was refined, polite, prudent, affable, ever prosperous, level-headed, and successful. Based on stereotypes and expectations, Mozart would have made the better Romantic composer, Mendelssohn the better Classical. When it comes to fulfilling that Beethoven-Schumann-Chopin set romantic ideal of the troubled, struggling artist, Mendelssohn did only one thing right: He died early.

But premature death—at 38, only six months after his beloved sister Fanny died aged 41—wasn't enough for a romantic reputation. Partly due to the nature of his compositions, partly due to his biography and personality, he has been treated—though never entirely dismissed—as a lightweight composer. In that sense, it wasn't helpful that he wrote two of his most enduring and charming (always that word coming up with matters Mendelssohn) works at the ages of 16 and 17: The Octet for Strings op.20 and the above mentioned Midsummer Night's Overture op.21, respectively. This contributed to the image of a sort of Benjamin Button of composers—a young man who starts out at perfection (much more accomplished, at that age, than Mozart) but then regressed at a high level, never again to push the boundaries of his craft.

This view is correct only in its high estimate of the Octet and the Overture—they are indeed among the best works any composer that age has put out, including Korngold and Bridge. But it is wrong in many other ways. The works did not come out of nowhere, they were the process of a steady development of his talent backed with a thorough—and unlike Mozart, very broad—education. Nor are these works masterpieces in a bygone style, isolated from the development in music. If Louis Spohr wrote his octets as doubled barreled string quartet arrangements, Mendelssohn introduced a new style: eight instruments and as many voices, wholly integrated in the work blurring the lines between chamber- and symphonic music.

Josquin des Prez

Quote(much more accomplished, at that age, than Mozart)

He also had much better influences during his formative years. Mozart was nurtured on the low classical composers of his era, the best of which was the early Haydn, while Mendelssohn was raised on the mature Haydn, as well as Mozart himself, Beethoven and Bach! No wonder he matured earlier. Mozart had to develop genius out of thin air, Mendelssohn had genius all around him from which to draw from.

jlaurson

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on February 04, 2009, 06:18:26 AM
He also had much better influences during his formative years. Mozart was nurtured on the low classical composers of his era, the best of which was the early Haydn, while Mendelssohn was raised on the mature Haydn, as well as Mozart himself, Beethoven and Bach! No wonder he matured earlier. Mozart had to develop genius out of thin air, Mendelssohn had genius all around him from which to draw from.

True... but that's an advantage that every composer since has enjoyed, too. Mendelssohn made something of it. Many others did apparently not. Or Korngold, who was just about as prematurely-splendid, didn't seem to copy those composers of his time and place, when he was a kid... but went well beyond the common musical language of his time and certainly of his household. So it must be something more than just famous examples.

Opus106

Quote from: jlaurson on February 03, 2009, 01:03:06 PM
Happy Birthday, Mendelssohn!
Little Essay on the Composer for his Birthday. (And recording recommendations, too, of course.)

Felix Mendelssohn B.

Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy was born today, 200 years ago, in Hamburg, to Abraham Mendelssohn and Lea Salomon, grandson to Moses Mendelssohn, the famous philosopher, scholar, and model for Lessing's "Nathan the Wise". Felix' father, who converted to Lutheranism for convenience' sake ("If you don't believe in any one Religion as the right one, why burden your children with Judaism"), and added "Bartholdy" to the family name.

....

Thank you very much, I found the article quite informative.
Regards,
Navneeth

Josquin des Prez

Quote from: jlaurson on February 04, 2009, 06:37:44 AM
Many others did apparently not.

Many others weren't prodigies. Don't forget that people like Mozart or Mendelssohn are a rarity.

greg

Quote from: eyeresist on February 03, 2009, 10:29:52 PM
I read somewhere that Wagner acknowledged the influence of the Hebrides overture on his Flying Dutchman. Apparently at a concert including the overture he joked, "What a thief I was in my youth!"

Really?  :D
Ha, so I guess I'm not delusional if Wagner admitted it himself.  ;D

eyeresist

Quote from: jlaurson on February 04, 2009, 06:00:46 AM
Based on stereotypes and expectations, Mozart would have made the better Romantic composer, Mendelssohn the better Classical.

This is a very interesting comment.
It also bears pointing out that Mendelssohn's last 3 purely orchestral symphonies, if taken in the order in which they were composed rather than numbered, indicate he was certainly improving as an "adult" symphonist, becoming comfortable with the larger forms.

Brian

Quote from: ChamberNut on February 04, 2009, 05:04:38 AMWhile the cellists were seated during the performance, the other 6 string players were all standing.  You could really tell all 8 performers were really, really into the piece, were passionate about playing it and it showed so much in the performance.  :)
All eight of our players were seated, but that did not stop Cho-Liang Lin, in the violin first chair, from coming very close to standing in his enthusiastic gesticulations! :D

jlaurson

Quote from: eyeresist on February 04, 2009, 04:27:57 PM
This is a very interesting comment.
It also bears pointing out that Mendelssohn's last 3 purely orchestral symphonies, if taken in the order in which they were composed rather than numbered, indicate he was certainly improving as an "adult" symphonist, becoming comfortable with the larger forms.

Nearly everything in Mozart's work points to him continuously improving.

Here's another Mendelssohn anecdote that didn't fit into the article:


FMB gave the British premiere of Beethoven's E-flat Major Piano Concerto in 1829 in London. On July 13th he conducted a benefit concert which included Mendelssohn's Concerto for Two Pianos & Orchestra. Apparently Mendelssohn was not averse to pandering a little to the audience, and the rehearsals were adjusted, accordingly. He reports to his sister: "The last piece is played incredibly brilliantly by Moscheles, he just purls the runs off as if they were nothing. When that was over, everyone said that it was too bad that we had not included a cadenza and so I immediately culled a section in the last tutti of the first piece where the orchestra has a fermata... and Moscheles had no choice but to agree, on the spot, to compose a grand cadenza for it. We now calculated, with much merriment, whether the last little solo could still remain, since it should now be drowned out by applause. "We need a piece of tutti between the cadenza and the final solo passages", I said. "How long should they applaud?", asked Moscheles. "Zehn Minuten, I dare say", I answered. Moscheles haggled me down to five minutes. I promised to deliver the tutti--and so we took measure and stitched and  turned and quilted, put in the sleeves à la mameluke and tailored a brilliant concerto. Today we have rehearsals again; we'll have a music-pot-luck: Moscheles brings the cadenza, and I the tutti."

Superhorn

   Without a doubt,Mendelssohn is a very fine composer; his music is elegant,impeccably crafted and melodious. However, compared to some other great composers. such as Beethoven, Wagner, and his contemporary Schumann,his music is a little on the bland side.
  Yet I still enjoy works such as the Italian and Scottish symphonies, the violin concerto, Misummer Night's Dream overture etc.
I also like the Calm Sea and Prosperous Voyage overture,which isn't heard all that often,and the Lobgesang symphony, and Elijah.

Herman

I listened to the Variations Sérieuses for piano today, played by Sofronitsky. I don't know the piece all that well, and will give it a couple more listens.

It's interesting how he uses fragments from Schumann's Carnaval (or is it the other way around?).

We're used to the dogma that the Romantics stressed originality above everything, but Schumann and Brahms borrowed themes all the time, too.

op.110

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on February 03, 2009, 08:44:47 PM
Not all the time. He may be lacking in technical daring but some of his works are definitely not skim in technical profusion. He's not Brahms, but he sure gets close sometimes. Take his opus 44 for instance.

I've never listened to Op. 44; but from the few works I've listened to and performed by the composer, I've never felt challenged in both  performance and listening settings.

Josquin des Prez

#78
Quote from: op.110 on February 05, 2009, 01:49:53 PM
I've never listened to Op. 44; but from the few works I've listened to and performed by the composer, I've never felt challenged in both  performance and listening settings.

Well, don't expect late Beethoven, or anything like that, but some of his works are not exactly skimpy in technicalities. A lot of hidden contrapuntal devices and some of his formal developments are impeccable. Perhaps i went too far in comparing him with Brahms, but i wouldn't consider his works simplistic. In fact, his technique is so damn assured one wonders if he couldn't have done more if he had been possessed by a more daring personality. Also, if you believe his expression is artificial, like a i do, you kinda have to stand in awe at the intelligence required to create such a lifelike counterfeit.  :P

eyeresist

Quote from: jlaurson on February 04, 2009, 11:20:51 PM
Nearly everything in Mozart's work points to him continuously improving.

I said Mendelssohn, not Mozart.

Re My earlier anecdote about Wagner, I think the overture in question was actually the Calm Sea, Prosperous Voyage, not the Hebrides. As for my source for this memory, I think it is in a liner note at the bottom of a sealed box (which is under some other boxes). Surely someone here has read a couple of Wagner biographies and can confirm or deny my assertions?