Mozart a fraud?

[karlhenning]

Wow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_Mozart

Wikiphedia says that Lepold taught violin, is that wrong, Fin?

Of course, that is right.  And he was Vice-Kapellmeister in Salzburg;  and he composed many works.  And he was qualified to teach harmony and composition (Newman is funny, for one minute he will point to musical misatributions to Wolfgang, as "proof" that all "so-called 'Mozart' studies" are suspect . . . and some of that music thus misatributed is by Leopold, but Newman will ignore the fact that being a composer is sufficient qualification to teach one's own child composition).

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[karlhenning]

Let others be the judge of who is offering to provide facts. The record speaks for itself.

Indeed it does! Shall I remind you? (Cor, what a short memory you have LOLOLOL.)

This is an excellent series of sentences, Bob.  Just precisely when will you provide any evidence to support your claims?  Evidence would have to be verifiable sources.  I'll give you an easy one, provide documented, verifiable evidence that "By 1789 his alleged 'patrons' had dwindled to only ONE name, Baron Swieten."  Source name, date, location, etc. 

I predict you cannot.

That was in May, Rob.  And it's near mid-July now.  You are hilarious!

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[DavidRoss]

Let others be the judge of who is offering to provide facts. The record speaks for itself.

I sure does!  Too bad you lack the capacity to recognize it.  I hope you get some help, because the record here suggests something more deeply pathological than ordinary willfully narcissistic self-deception.

[robnewman]

Of course, that is right.  And he was Vice-Kapellmeister in Salzburg;  and he composed many works.  And he was qualified to teach harmony and composition (Newman is funny, for one minute he will point to musical misatributions to Wolfgang, as "proof" that all "so-called 'Mozart' studies" are suspect . . . and some of that music thus misatributed is by Leopold, but Newman will ignore the fact that being a composer is sufficient qualification to teach one's own child composition).

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

But that is nonsense. Leopold Mozart himself admitted in writing that Wolfgang had NOT learned composition from him. He said so in a still surviving letter to Padre Martini in Bolgona, Italy, as already said. That IS documentary evidence.  And this same fact was stated by the employer of both Leopold and Wolfgang, the Prince Archbishop of Salzburg himself ! This is further confirmed by the surviving entrance exam paper taken by Wolfgang Mozart in Bologna itself which is filled with crude musical errors. As has been documented by musicologists in Italy.

You do not like these facts, do you, Professor Henning ? Not even when they are documented realities. Leopold Mozart was a plagiarist and a con-man. He became a 'Vice Kapellmeister' after a mediocre career that began as 4th violinist and ended as 2nd Violinist. Being awarded the token post of 'Vice Kapellmeister' only weeks before he left Salzburg.

Let's get our facts straight, right, Professor ? As for his plagiarisation, we need only examine his 'Violinschule' of 1756. This is a plagiarised version of an unpublished violin tutorial by the Italian maestro Giuseppe Tartini. As all of Italy knows. But not you, Professor Henning, right ? 

[Christie]

Of course, that is right.  And he was Vice-Kapellmeister in Salzburg;  and he composed many works.  And he was qualified to teach harmony and composition (Newman is funny, for one minute he will point to musical misatributions to Wolfgang, as "proof" that all "so-called 'Mozart' studies" are suspect . . . and some of that music thus misatributed is by Leopold, but Newman will ignore the fact that being a composer is sufficient qualification to teach one's own child composition).

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

You don't have to go to school to learn how to teach composition?

[robnewman]

You don't have to go to school to learn how to teach composition?

Yes, and you don't have to study to fly a Jumbo jet either. Kids do it all the time. Why, there are 5 year old pilots flying all the time between Boston and London, as everyone knows. Very cost-effective too !  

[karlhenning]

Rob, Rob!  In your eagerness to rail against me, you have exposed a fundamental inability to concentrate on what is said.  Alas! This does not inspire confidence in your capacity as a Sifter of Facts and Seeker After Truth!

But that is nonsense. Leopold Mozart himself admitted in writing that Wolfgang had NOT learned composition from him [...]

You do not like these facts, do you, Professor Henning? [...]

Let's get our facts straight, right, Professor? [...]

Yes, let's get the facts right, including the post which you just quoted:

Of course, that is right.  And he was Vice-Kapellmeister in Salzburg;  and he composed many works.  And he was qualified to teach harmony and composition (Newman is funny, for one minute he will point to musical misatributions to Wolfgang, as "proof" that all "so-called 'Mozart' studies" are suspect . . . and some of that music thus misatributed is by Leopold, but Newman will ignore the fact that being a composer is sufficient qualification to teach one's own child composition).

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

Now, let us set entirely aside for the moment any possibility that Leopold's letter might have been a matter of emphasizing the boy's native talent (a fact which is inconvenient to somebody on this thread, I think).

Your rant gets all lathered up over something I did not state.  Read 'er again, Rob.  My statement is that Leopold was qualified to teach composition.  I did not claim that Leopold did in fact teach the boy.

Read much, Rob?  Get much out of what you read?  Or are you too busy inserting that which you wish it to mean? LOLOLOL

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[Christie]

Yes, and you don't have to study to fly a Jumbo jet either. Kids do it all the time. Why, there are 5 year old pilots flying all the time between Boston and London, as everyone knows. Very cost-effective too !  

Why u make fun of me?

[robnewman]

Rob, Rob!  In your eagerness to rail against me, you have exposed a fundamental inability to concentrate on what is said.  Alas! This does not inspire confidence in your capacity as a Sifter of Facts and Seeker After Truth!

Yes, let's get the facts right, including the post which you just quoted:

Now, let us set entirely aside for the moment any possibility that Leopold's letter might have been a matter of emphasizing the boy's native talent (a fact which is inconvenient to somebody on this thread, I think).

Your rant gets all lathered up over something I did not state.  Read 'er again, Rob.  My statement is that Leopold was qualified to teach composition.  I did not claim that Leopold did in fact teach the boy.

Read much, Rob?  Get much out of what you read?  Or are you too busy inserting that which you wish it to mean? LOLOLOL

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

Professor Karl Henning writes -

'I did not claim that Leopold did in fact teach the boy'.

Ohhhhhh ! Right !!

So Leopold did not teach the boy after all, right, Professor ? Which is what Leopold said and it's what the Prince Archbishop said. So, it seems to me, that the actual evidence says Leopold Mozart did NOT teach the boy. Isn't that right Professor ?

[karlhenning]

Professor Karl Henning writes -

'I did not claim that Leopold did in fact teach the boy'.

Ohhhhhh ! Right !!

So Leopold did not teach the boy after all, right, Professor ?

Thank you for another non-answer!  And for implicitly acknowledging that your reading is unreliable.

You're hilarious! LOLOLOL 

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[robnewman]

Thank you for another non-answer!  And for implicitly acknowledging that your reading is unreliable.

You're hilarious! LOLOLOL  

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

''The Wisdom of Professor Karl Henning'' (Volume 20, page 499920)

'I did not say that Leopold taught the boy'

No, Professor, and since there are two sources which say he, Leopold, did NOT teach the boy (one being Leopold Mozart himself, and the other being the Prince Archbishop of Salzburg, the employer of them both) you are willing to accept that he, Leopold, did NOT teach the boy, right, Professor ? Or have I been confused again by the brilliance of your orations ?

[karlhenning]

So, it seems to me, that the actual evidence says Leopold Mozart did NOT teach the boy.

a) On the actual evidence of this thread, no one here has the least confidence in what you say about evidence.  (And maybe some of us believe that it is in the mail, too.)

b) I am a composer, and I rather suspect that you are not.  You have not written anything to inspire even the least confidence that you understand what is needed to learn composition, what is needed to compose, or what is needed to teach composition.

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[Joe Barron]

I thought we weren't supposed to be feeding this particular troll.

[robnewman]

I thought we weren't supposed to be feeding this particular troll.

You are right. But he is starving. And so we need to show compassion. In the form of documentary evidence - this showing that Mozart's father did NOT teach his son composition. Since the letter in question was written by Leopold himself to Padre Martini in Italy and it says even Leopold's employer, the Prince Archbishop of Salzburg denied that Wolfgang had learned music at the time when he left Salzburg. 

Which, I guess, is clear proof Leopold Mozart taught the boy after all, right ? This is a farce, and you know it.

[DavidW]

Newman, do you enjoy the Jupiter symphony?

[robnewman]

Newman, do you enjoy the Jupiter symphony?

Yes, I do. And you ? It's one of 3 which Mozart is said to have composed in 6 weeks in the summer of 1788. But it's the result of all that good composition teaching from Leopold Mozart, back in Salzburg. Right ?

[DavidW]

Yes, I do. And you ? It's one of 3 which Mozart is said to have composed in 6 weeks in the summer of 1788. But it's the result of all that good composition teaching from Leopold Mozart, back in Salzburg. Right ?

Yes I love it!  Do you think that Mozart wrote it?

[snyprrr]

My e-mail is right on my profile page... for a book.

[robnewman]

Archives of Professor Karl Henning - Volume 21 Page 881 -(posted on this forum) - 22nd May 2009


1. 'Hmm...let's see... Mozart's father was a composer....MOZART WAS TAUGHT BY HIS FATHER.... ergo. Mozart studied composition with a composer ! Count on us to state the obvious when needed'.

2. 'Mozart went to school at home. His father, a composer, conductor, violinist and pedagogue taught him'

Source - Professor Karl Henning.

3. 'I did NOT say that Leopold taught him'.

(Source - Professor Karl Henning) - Date, Today

[robnewman]

My e-mail is right on my profile page... for a book.

Great ! Do you want a copy ? Your email address is currently hidden from view.