Mozart a fraud?

[DavidW]

I'm sure an important work like that must have been published by a major publishing company available for purchase in most bookstores.  Certainly it wouldn't just be a downloadable pdf!  Imagine how preposterous that would be!

[Franco]

I am wondering if this thread will make it to 1,000 posts?  I will help it limp along with one more.

Mr. Newman, if you would only devote as much energy to legitimate research in musicology or history as you do to alledging Mozart a fraud, it is entirely possible you could sustain a career in those fields.

My Composition teacher once complained that because of the plethora of Ph.D. candidates all the "good" topics had been taken long ago and people were reduced to doing their research on more and more marginal figures and/or issues - but it does seem that you have gone off the deep end.

But, who knows, in this era, even a book purporting something so patently absurd as your thesis could find a publisher and even sell a few copies.

[Scarpia]

As everyone can see.

No one on this board has ever claimed to have "seen" what you say they have seen.

[robnewman]

No one on this board has ever claimed to have "seen" what you say they have seen.

You are right. I am assuming a man who reads more than one side of a story is better informed than he who has read only one, or none at all.

But in your case, well, who knows ? You may be the exception to the rule.

[robnewman]

I am wondering if this thread will make it to 1,000 posts?  I will help it limp along with one more.

Mr. Newman, if you would only devote as much energy to legitimate research in musicology or history as you do to alledging Mozart a fraud, it is entirely possible you could sustain a career in those fields.

My Composition teacher once complained that because of the plethora of Ph.D. candidates all the "good" topics had been taken long ago and people were reduced to doing their research on more and more marginal figures and/or issues - but it does seem that you have gone off the deep end.

But, who knows, in this era, even a book purporting something so patently absurd as your thesis could find a publisher and even sell a few copies.

'Patently absurd' ? What is more absurd than a myth that nobody ever questions in detail and whose teachers and students are determined to remain ignorant ? THAT is patently absurd. A generation of self-deluded fools, perhaps ?

[karlhenning]

You are right. I am assuming a man who reads more than one side of a story is better informed than he who has read only one, or none at all.

This is not any matter of another side to the story (which would indeed repay investigation), but of inane contradiction which flies in the face of facts, and which fails to bolster its own claims.

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[karlhenning]

A generation of self-deluded fools, perhaps?

The self-deluded fool under advisement is the fellow who cannot belly up to these:

Fact: Mozart learned music from his father, a professional musician.

Fact: Newman consistently glosses over this fact.

Fact: Newman consistently lies, by asserting the opposite.

Fact: Mozart's string quartets do not just sound like the string quartets of his lesser contemporaries.

Fact: Newman's only answer to this is boilerplate on the order of "the music of Josef Myslivececk is amazingly 'Mozartean', yes?"

Basta.

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[robnewman]

I'm sure an important work like that must have been published by a major publishing company available for purchase in most bookstores.  Certainly it wouldn't just be a downloadable pdf!  Imagine how preposterous that would be!

Almost as preposterous as you actually reading it, right ?

[robnewman]

The self-deluded fool under advisement is the fellow who cannot belly up to these:

Fact: Mozart learned music from his father, a professional musician.

Fact: Newman consistently glosses over this fact.

Fact: Newman consistently lies, by asserting the opposite.

Fact: Mozart's string quartets do not just sound like the string quartets of his lesser contemporaries.

Fact: Newman's only answer to this is boilerplate on the order of "the music of Josef Myslivececk is amazingly 'Mozartean', yes?"

Basta.

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

Fact - I have asked Professor Karl Henning to show us evidence of Leopold Mozart being a teacher of composition/harmony to anyone. And we are still waiting. (He thinks we will believe him just for spreading this fiction. Let's tell him he is selling his snake oil again).

Fact - Mozart did NOT learn music from his father. In point of fact there exists a letter written by Leopold Mozart to Padre Martini in Bologna saying that his son (Wolfgang) according to his own employer (the Prince Archbishop of Salzburg) had NOT learned music or composition in Salzburg and that because of this FACT he, Wolfgang, was coming to Italy. But hey, why let such facts, documentary facts, get in the way of your fictions ? You are not interested in facts, are you, Prof. Henning ?

Fact - You don't want to read any works which call in to question your mythology. Although you want people to believe you are interested in evidence. That you are a fair and reasonable person. Right ? 

Fact - I have finished contributing to this thread.

RN

[Christie]

Dont go! I wnt to read ur book!

[robnewman]

Dont go! I wnt to read ur book!

Send me an email address and I will freely send you the 2008 book on 'Le Nozze di Figaro'. As I have already sent to several people here today.

As for the larger book this will be completed at the end of this year.

[Franco]

'Patently absurd' ? What is more absurd than a myth that nobody ever questions in detail and whose teachers and students are determined to remain ignorant ? THAT is patently absurd. A generation of self-deluded fools, perhaps ?

Revisionist history is a legitimate field but just as often produces intellectually empty pursuits such as the Shakespeare-did-not-write-the-plays books and sometimes can actually descend into something not so benign as the Holocaust deniers such as David Irving.

I am not comparing you to Irving, but I guess it was only a matter of time that the field of music history spawned its own version of the Shakespeare silliness.  

I understand that there is even an annual convention of the Bard-bashers.

Will I soon read of you and your fellow travelers gathering somewhere to titillate each other with the latest research concerning how the Mozart Industry has stolen the work product of Vanhal et al?

[karlhenning]

Fact - [...] You are not interested in facts, are you, Prof. Henning ?

Fact - You don't want to read any works which call in to question your mythology [...]

Fact - I have finished contributing to this thread.

Thank you for demonstrating again that you do not know what a fact is.  Rather a severe handicap to your eccentric endeavor, of course.  Ah, well, you still have time to take up some worthwhile employment.

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[DavidW]

Almost as preposterous as you actually reading it, right ?

If it's free I'll gladly read it.

[Cato]

Some time ago I provided an e-mail address for the "Le Nozze Is A Fraud"  file: hesse3000@totalmail.com

STILLLLLLLLL Waiting! You have not sent me any such book yet: I assume it is the one offered by a certain Anna Trombetta and Luca Bianchini?

And we are STILLLLLL waiting for the answers to the questions I posed yesterday!

We assume therefore that Mr. Newman will not answer the simple Yes/No question: e.g. "Have you compared original manuscripts with or without the help of a paleographer?"  "Will you provide a list of archivists/librarians who dealt with you as you researched the original manuscripts, and a list of the dates you visited these libraries and archives?"

And he will not answer because the answer is NO...which demolishes the basis for any kind of legitimate examination of the hypothesis.

[Joe_Campbell]

Who's this "we" Rob keeps referring to?

I propose this: that any post robnewman makes other than a direct answer to Cato's most recent (and reasonable) request for evidence be deleted with or without robnewman's consent.

Otherwise:


And as all facts rob posted in this thread, his most recent:

Fact - I have finished contributing to this thread.

is just incorrect.

[karlhenning]

If it's free I'll gladly read it.

If it's evidence, 'tis wondrous strange that Mr Newman does not provide a tab here where he has been repeatedly asked.

LOL

It's hilarious!  

And as all facts rob posted in this thread, his most recent:

Fact - I have finished contributing to this thread.

is just incorrect.

Oui.

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[robnewman]

Some time ago I provided an e-mail address for the "Le Nozze Is A Fraud"  file: hesse3000@totalmail.com

STILLLLLLLLL Waiting! You have not sent me any such book yet: I assume it is the one offered by a certain Anna Trombetta and Luca Bianchini?

And we are STILLLLLL waiting for the answers to the questions I posed yesterday!

We assume therefore that Mr. Newman will not answer the simple Yes/No question: e.g. "Have you compared original manuscripts with or without the help of a paleographer?"  "Will you provide a list of archivists/librarians who dealt with you as you researched the original manuscripts, and a list of the dates you visited these libraries and archives?"

And he will not answer because the answer is NO...which demolishes the basis for any kind of legitimate examination of the hypothesis.

Cato,

I will send you this book on Figaro right now.

As for archives/libraries/researchers and sources contacted and used in the forthcoming book 'The Manufacture of Mozart', you will find these in the book itself.  

Robert Newman

[karlhenning]

And he will not answer because the answer is NO...which demolishes the basis for any kind of legitimate examination of the hypothesis.

It's in the mail, Cato!

LOLOLOL

Someone, please: send Rob Newman to school!

[robnewman]

Revisionist history is a legitimate field but just as often produces intellectually empty pursuits such as the Shakespeare-did-not-write-the-plays books and sometimes can actually descend into something not so benign as the Holocaust deniers such as David Irving.

I am not comparing you to Irving, but I guess it was only a matter of time that the field of music history spawned its own version of the Shakespeare silliness.  

I understand that there is even an annual convention of the Bard-bashers.

Will I soon read of you and your fellow travelers gathering somewhere to titillate each other with the latest research concerning how the Mozart Industry has stolen the work product of Vanhal et al?

Franco,

Do yourself a favour. Sit down and read the scale of fakery, exaggeration, forgery and omission for yourself. And form your own considered judgement. That is all I can suggest.