Cato's Grammar Grumble

Started by Cato, February 08, 2009, 05:00:18 PM

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Karl Henning

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on November 10, 2016, 05:31:04 AM
Would you prefer "predicted"?

What is the past of "to cast"?

Not to be oblique, my preference is forecast for the past of to forecast.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

zamyrabyrd

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 10, 2016, 06:03:12 AM
What is the past of "to cast"?
Not to be oblique, my preference is forecast for the past of to forecast.

So how would you tell the difference between present and past?
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

North Star

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on November 10, 2016, 06:16:13 AM
So how would you tell the difference between present and past?
From the context. :)
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

kishnevi

Quote from: zamyrabyrd on November 10, 2016, 06:16:13 AM
So how would you tell the difference between present and past?

Context.  Just as the context of this discussion makes it clear you were referencing grammatical tenses even though you did not use the word itself.

Ken B

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 10, 2016, 06:03:12 AM
What is the past of "to cast"?

Not to be oblique, my preference is forecast for the past of to forecast.

Past of stand, stood.
Past of understand, understanded.

kishnevi

Quote from: Ken B on November 10, 2016, 06:43:20 AM
Past of stand, stood.
Past of understand, understanded.

Maybe in Canada but where I am from, understanded is not a word and understood can be past or present tense.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Ken B on November 10, 2016, 06:43:20 AM
Past of understand, understanded.

You really know how to hurt a guy, don't you?  ;)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Ken B

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 10, 2016, 06:52:56 AM
Maybe in Canada but where I am from, understanded is not a word and understood can be past or present tense.
Where I'm from sarcasm is subtle.

Cato

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 10, 2016, 06:52:56 AM
Maybe in Canada but where I am from, understanded is not a word and understood can be past or present tense.

Present Perfect Tense - e.g. I (have) understood

English is curious: one can say "landed," and "banded," and "sanded," and even "stranded," but not "standed."

Curiously, our cousin language German uses "stand" as a past tense!  :o ???
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Ken B

Quote from: Cato on November 10, 2016, 08:55:22 AM
Present Perfect Tense - e.g. I (have) understood

English is curious: one can say "landed," and "banded," and "sanded," and even "stranded," but not "standed."
English is not even-hood.

Jo498

"understood" can never be present tense, can it? it is either the simple past or the participle, so "is understood" is present passive because it uses the participle (which is technically a "perfect" participle, isn't it?)

Actually, modern German is exactly parallel with modern English in that "understand" and "verstehen" (or stand and stehen) have both strong flexion: understood and verstand(en). (The mostly false friend pairing is "stay" - "stehen")
I am not sufficiently versed in linguistics but for whatever reasons often the most important everday verbs (be, have, bring, see, give, put....) have strong flexion or are even highly irregular with different stems (this is really annoying in ancient greek, arguably the most difficult thing about that language).
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Mahlerian

Quote from: Jo498 on November 11, 2016, 01:02:00 AMI am not sufficiently versed in linguistics but for whatever reasons often the most important everday verbs (be, have, bring, see, give, put....) have strong flexion or are even highly irregular with different stems (this is really annoying in ancient greek, arguably the most difficult thing about that language).

My vague recollection from that one linguistics class I took is that irregularities are more likely to survive if they're in words that are used commonly, while they're more likely to be ironed out of a language if they're in less commonly-used words.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

North Star

Quote from: Mahlerian on November 11, 2016, 04:23:34 AM
My vague recollection from that one linguistics class I took is that irregularities are more likely to survive if they're in words that are used commonly, while they're more likely to be ironed out of a language if they're in less commonly-used words.
That's true; people bother to learn (and remember) if the words are commonly used, and also if it's a commonly used word, more people are outraged when the irregularities are dispensed with.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Ken B


North Star

Quote from: Ken B on November 11, 2016, 11:02:37 AM
If all men are brothers would you let one marry your sister?
Or marry your own sister?
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Karl Henning

Quote from: Ken B on November 11, 2016, 11:02:37 AM
If all men are brothers would you let one marry your sister?

Is that where Schiller was going with that!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

jochanaan

Quote from: Ken B on November 11, 2016, 11:02:37 AM
If all men are brothers would you let one marry your sister?
Loved that Theodore Sturgeon story! ;D
Imagination + discipline = creativity

Ken B

Quote from: jochanaan on November 13, 2016, 08:45:11 AM
Loved that Theodore Sturgeon story! ;D
I was beginning to think no-one would spot the reference!

Karl Henning

I know, we can probably find several of these every day, but . . .

Quotea country that is not diminishing it's military
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot