Cato's Grammar Grumble

[eyeresist]

Re Affluent beggars, I rarely give, as I live in a country with a generous welfare system. I emphatically did not give to the lady who begged with her cup held out in one hand, whilst chatting on a phone held to her ear by the other.

At least she didn't have "hands free".

Not a grumble, per se . . . .

Esteemed Britons! Colour and flavour, right?

Why not liquour?

Why not, indeed?

*glug glug*

Although I think you'll find we Anglos (and affiliates!) usually say "spirits".

*hic*


Off topic - Weird Victorian names:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMp_xGeQ2v0

[Karl Henning]

Spirits in the material world...

[Karl Henning]

Re Affluent beggars, I rarely give, as I live in a country with a generous welfare system. I emphatically did not give to the lady who begged with her cup held out in one hand, whilst chatting on a phone held to her ear by the other.

I'm on the phone. Your alms are important to us . . . .

[Ten thumbs]

Mm, so no languour, either?  You may be right.  I kind of like the look of that -uou- though . . . .

Maybe you'll find it if you look in old novels. The following spellings were in existence around 1800:

Errour, and Terrour

[Karl Henning]

"We have lots of programming to create and rolls to fill."

Hot dog!

[Karl Henning]

Not really a grumble . . . I like an amusing typo as well as (perhaps even better than) the next guy:

. . . the specific consolidations being proposed would barley dent the number of . . . .

Emphasis mine ; )

[chasmaniac]

Mmm, barley, and not barely!

[Cato]

On a news show here in America, reporters with nothing else to do (apparently) were sent to interview Arabic speakers for the "proper pronunciation" of the countries "Qatar" and, one of my favorite places, "Iraq".   0:)   Some even were sent to Qatar itself.

The problem being: "Why a 'Q' instead of a 'K' in those words (and by implication in other transliterated words using an English 'Q')?"

Not one native speaker of Arabic used a "kw" sound for their pronunciation of the "Q" in "Qatar" or "Iraq."  Everything came out as a "K" or a "Kh" or even a "G" or "Gh" sound.

In German, "Qatar" is "Katar" and "Iraq" is "Irak."  Makes sense!

According to my daughter, worse is a system of transliterating Chinese: it uses "Q" for the "Ch" sound (as in Chinese).

Very odd!   

[Karl Henning]

Great grumble! Where on God's green English earth did that 'Q' come from!?

[North Star]

Great grumble! Where on God's green English earth did that 'Q' come from!?

Perhaps the Quinese people would know that.

[Cato]

Okay, after spending not a few minutes on this, I have determined the following:

The sound being described is a "K," but pronounced even deeper in the throat than an English "K," which is why "Kh" or even "G(h)" came out when native Arabic speakers said "Qatar" in the interviews.

People prefer the old "Kh" idea, as in "Khadaffi" (R.I.P.).

A "kw" sound is NEVER involved!

None of the websites lists exactly which genius was responsible for the "Q" being used today.

[chasmaniac]

Okay, after spending not a few minutes on this, I have determined the following:

The sound being described is a "K," but pronounced even deeper in the throat than an English "K," which is why "Kh" or even "G(h)" came out when native Arabic speakers said "Qatar" in the interviews.

People prefer the old "Kh" idea, as in "Khadaffi" (R.I.P.).

A "kw" sound is NEVER involved!

None of the websites lists exactly which genius was responsible for the "Q" being used today.

Is it a uvular stop? Old English had a uvular fricative in it, believe it or not, the source of some of our gh spellings, if memory serves. Oh, those japing Jutes! 

[Karl Henning]

No wonder a sound known as the uvular fricative would be suppressed, hah!

[The Six]

On a news show here in America, reporters with nothing else to do (apparently) were sent to interview Arabic speakers for the "proper pronunciation" of the countries "Qatar" and, one of my favorite places, "Iraq".   0:)   Some even were sent to Qatar itself.

The problem being: "Why a 'Q' instead of a 'K' in those words (and by implication in other transliterated words using an English 'Q')?"

Not one native speaker of Arabic used a "kw" sound for their pronunciation of the "Q" in "Qatar" or "Iraq."  Everything came out as a "K" or a "Kh" or even a "G" or "Gh" sound.

In German, "Qatar" is "Katar" and "Iraq" is "Irak."  Makes sense!

According to my daughter, worse is a system of transliterating Chinese: it uses "Q" for the "Ch" sound (as in Chinese).

Very odd!   

Probably to give the word some character. If you know certain words have unique spellings like that, it's a hint that it's a foreign word, and you might be able to figure out from where just from looking at it. Kind of like an identifier. There's no "u," so there shouldn't be any confusion as to whether it's pronounced "kw" or not.

[kishnevi]

Okay, after spending not a few minutes on this, I have determined the following:

The sound being described is a "K," but pronounced even deeper in the throat than an English "K," which is why "Kh" or even "G(h)" came out when native Arabic speakers said "Qatar" in the interviews.

People prefer the old "Kh" idea, as in "Khadaffi" (R.I.P.).

A "kw" sound is NEVER involved!

None of the websites lists exactly which genius was responsible for the "Q" being used today.

It's probably done on parallel reasons with the usual system for transliterating Hebrew:  K for Kaph, Kh for Kaph sofit, Q for Qof, and H with a dot under it for Chet, in which the instructions suggest taking Scot loch or German Ich/Ach as approximations.

Kaph is the letter used, eg in Cohen;  Qof is the letter used in Qabalah/Kabbalah; Chet is the letter which leads off Chai and Chanukah. However, to add to the confusion, Kaph is actually a "double letter"; when a dot, called a dagesh, is inserted into the letter, it's sounded like Chet. Kaph sofit is the form of Kaph used when it's the final letter of a word, and is almost always used with the dagesh in that position.

Functionally in modern speech Kaph without dagesh sounds just like Qof; Kaph with dagesh sounds just like Chet, but K is the transliteration for both versions.  There is a grammatical rule which allows you to tell when you're dealing with a dagesh-Kaph or not. and because of that rule, Karl's name would be transliterated into Hebrew with Qof, and therefore transliterated back into English letters as QaRL.  (Dagesh is used when the Kaph is the first letter of a word or syllable.)

Cato would probably be QaiTV--where the V is a V used as a vowel to represent long O or long U.

[Karl Henning]

Oof, it's got to be a typo, though it happens twice in the same paragraph: winner take call for winner take all.

[ The source ]

[Lethevich]

Dumb question #48844224567432: Does "Coke" have one or two syllables?

I notice that if I say it casually, it sounds like a cockney saying "coat" (the second two letters are ignored), but if I try to compensate, I put enough emphasis on the k to make it sound two-part. I suppose technically it is one syllable but the way it's spoken feels awkwardly like one and a half. Maybe it's my brain subconsciously pushing me towards the two bits in "Coca".

[Ataraxia]

Dumb question #48844224567432: Does "Coke" have one or two syllables?

I notice that if I say it casually, it sounds like a cockney saying "coat" (the second two letters are ignored), but if I try to compensate, I put enough emphasis on the k to make it sound two-part. I suppose technically it is one syllable but the way it's spoken feels awkwardly like one and a half. Maybe it's my brain subconsciously pushing me towards the two bits in "Coca".

I hear what you mean.

[Karl Henning]

FWIW . . . I've always pronounced it in one.

[Ataraxia]

When your mouth breaks off the "k" sound, it makes an additional click.