Author Topic: Gurn's Classical Corner  (Read 569671 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #420 on: April 18, 2009, 03:40:56 PM »
Even "grandfathering" has a history, Gurn  8)

Yes indeed. One shouldn't allow oneself to be misled by such vestigial customs though. :)

8)

----------------
Listening to:
Haydn: The Complete Overtures - Manfred Huss - Haydn Sinfonietta Wien - L'Incontro Improviso: Sinfonia in D
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #421 on: April 22, 2009, 05:04:23 PM »
Development of the Classical orchestra -
All this talk on other threads (like HIP Beethoven Symphonies, for one) about performance practice got me curious to refresh my memory about size and constitution of the orchestra during the period in question (1750-1830 <>). So to start at the beginning, I looked up what our old friend Quantz had to say, since he wrote near the beginning of the period (early 1750's). What I found were a couple of anomalies from that era which changed over time as the orchestra itself and ideas about music evolved.

According to Quantz, a "nice sized" orchestra had between 8 & 10 violins. Not so many, eh? If there were 8 violins (divided half and half into firsts and seconds), then there would be 1 each of violas, cellos and basses. If there were 10 violins, then 2 each of the others. But here is where the oddity is: for that many strings (call it 16), there would be 3 or 4 each of flutes & oboes, along with 2 horns & 2 bassoons and a harpsichord to supply the necessary basso continuuo. By the standards that we are more familiar with (I'll get to that in a minute), this would have shifted the color of the sound quite heavily into the winds. I pondered this for a while and came to the conclusion that Quantz was a flutist, writing about flutes, and that he was the teacher of Frederick the Great, also a flutist and wind lover, and perhaps this alignment of instruments was peculiar to Northern Germany at the time, moreso than to Europe in general. Interested in other ideas on this subject, since the prevailing idea that I have gleaned elsewhere is that strings were always in the majority...  :-\

When Haydn began his tenure at Esterházy, his entire orchestra consisted of 20 players. Probably <> 14 strings and 6 winds, with himself playing continuuo. Since this was around 1761, and the private orchestra of one of the richest men in Europe, this was probably even a bit more than the norm. So when we hear the symphony #6, "Le Matin" played with an orchestra the same as plays "Drumroll" or "Surprise", it's probably just a bit beyond what Haydn envisioned. :)   Not making an argument for historical accuracy here, just sayin'.... ;) 

Mozart's early symphonies, from a very few years later than this, have written parts for 2 violins, 1 viola, 1 cello, 1 bass, no flutes, 2 oboes, 1 bassoon and 2 horns. The question lies in how many on a part? Well, the range of orchestra sizes back then was really pretty large. I let Dr. Neal Zaslaw do the research for me (Mozart's Symphonies), and he did a splendid job of it too. Just counting the 1760's for now, in places where Mozart's earliest symphonies were played for certain (London, The Hague, Amsterdam and Salzburg), we find 1st violins ranging from 3-6, 2nd violins from 3-4, violas from 1-6, cellos from 1-3, basses from 1-4, flutes from 0-2, oboes 2, bassoons 1-2 & horns 2-4. The high end numbers for all of these come from the 2 court orchestras, The Hague and Salzburg (!). Zaslaw continues in this way with all the orchestras he can find info on throughout Mozart's lifetime that he might have composed for. An interesting pattern emerges through time. Despite absolute numbers of instruments, when the ratio of string to wind is plotted, there is a steady proportion of 5.8 string players to 0.3 non-string players! And this holds true throughout the period....   Which brings me back to Quantz. The ratio there is approximately 2:1. ??? Well, maybe this is the exception that proves the rule. :)

Please feel free to cuss or discuss. I know well that there are those of you out there who know a lot more about this than I do. I would love to learn from you. And questions of balance and color are certainly welcome to be addressed, as they are germane to the topic. :)

8)




----------------
Listening to:
Venice Baroque Orchestra; Carmignola - RV 331 Concerto in g for Violin 2nd mvmt - Largo
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13146
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #422 on: April 22, 2009, 05:31:13 PM »
Development of the Classical orchestra -
All this talk on other threads (like HIP Beethoven Symphonies, for one) about performance practice got me curious to refresh my memory about size and constitution of the orchestra during the period in question (1750-1830 <>). So to start at the beginning, I looked up what our old friend Quantz had to say, since he wrote near the beginning of the period (early 1750's). What I found were a couple of anomalies from that era which changed over time as the orchestra itself and ideas about music evolved....................

Good evening Gurn - thanks for your detailed thread on the orchestra and its changes from this wonderful period that we both love!  ;D

But, not sure if I've posted the book below in this thread (maybe in the reading one?) - The Birth of the Orchestra - History of an Institution, 1650-1815 by John Spitzer & Neal Zaslaw (2004) by Oxford Press - I bought this 'paperback' book (and not cheap, so a local library checkout would be recommended) - but this is an absolutely superb tome (about 600 pages including appendices & index) that considers exactly the questions that you discussed, i.e. the origins & development of 'orchestras' from the dates indicated; there are numerous tables & listings of the various orchestras of the times w/ exact listings of the instruments used - the detail is definitive - now, this will not appeal to many, but if you are interested in the questions & issues raised by this post, then I can't imagine a book that would not answer virtually many of the questions raised.  Dave  :)


Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #423 on: April 22, 2009, 05:49:05 PM »
Good evening Gurn - thanks for your detailed thread on the orchestra and its changes from this wonderful period that we both love!  ;D

But, not sure if I've posted the book below in this thread (maybe in the reading one?) - The Birth of the Orchestra - History of an Institution, 1650-1815 by John Spitzer & Neal Zaslaw (2004) by Oxford Press - I bought this 'paperback' book (and not cheap, so a local library checkout would be recommended) - but this is an absolutely superb tome (about 600 pages including appendices & index) that considers exactly the questions that you discussed, i.e. the origins & development of 'orchestras' from the dates indicated; there are numerous tables & listings of the various orchestras of the times w/ exact listings of the instruments used - the detail is definitive - now, this will not appeal to many, but if you are interested in the questions & issues raised by this post, then I can't imagine a book that would not answer virtually many of the questions raised.  Dave  :)



Ah, thanks Dave, that looks interesting. I have a nice book about orchestras, but surprisingly, it concentrates almost exclusively on the evolution of the instruments rather than their numbers. By the looks of that book, it rivals Zaslaw's Mozart book in size and probably detail too. I'll have to see what I can find, maybe Amazon has a used one. I got the Symphony book in England, cost a bloody fortune with shipping, but worth every farthing. :)

I suspect that the orchestras charting is a superset of where he started in this book. Does he carry over the ratio chart? If so, does it hold true generally? I thought that was a useful tidbit of information to have. Although orchestra size increased from 20 to 60 during the period, the ratio stayed the same.

Cheers, Dave,
8)

----------------
Listening to:
Venice Baroque Orchestra; Carmignola - RV 177 Concerto in b for Violin 3rd mvmt - Allegro
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Sorin Eushayson

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 308
    • Classical Music Mayhem
  • Location: West Coast, USA
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #424 on: April 23, 2009, 03:30:40 AM »
I see activity in the Corner!  ;D

Great post, Gurn.  I do think that smaller, more balanced forces like what you would have found in older times provide a much better sound, with more raw power and energy and clearer sonorities.  You bring up some interesting points here.

By the looks of that book, it rivals Zaslaw's Mozart book in size and probably detail too.

With Professor Zaslaw himself as co-author, nonetheless!  Looks like a fascinatingly informative book, indeed.

Offline FideLeo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2109
  • 2 HIPs Hooray! ^_^
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #425 on: April 23, 2009, 06:23:07 AM »


This one would make a nice sibling album for the one cited above, covering a later development and focusing perhaps more on the technical details of how to interpret contemporary notation.  I don't have this book but have read individual papers from Dr. Clive Brown.  Sir Roger Norrington supplied the foreword!
HIP for all and all for HIP! Harpsichord for Bach, fortepiano for Beethoven and pianoforte for Brahms!

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #426 on: April 23, 2009, 03:24:15 PM »


This one would make a nice sibling album for the one cited above, covering a later development and focusing perhaps more on the technical details of how to interpret contemporary notation.  I don't have this book but have read individual papers from Dr. Clive Brown.  Sir Roger Norrington supplied the foreword!

Yes, that's another one I've been looking at for a while. Actually, this book, the one Dave recommended and the one that I already have (Peyser) are/were listed by Amazon as a "three-fer" special. One could get a good orchestral library started for <> $100!   :)

8)

----------------
Listening to:
Collegium Aureum - K 248b_250 Serenade #7 in D "Haffner" 1st mvmt - Allegro maestoso - Allegro molto
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #427 on: April 24, 2009, 04:52:46 PM »
The chat on another thread about Piano Quintets put me in mind of this little series that I have been collecting for the last 6 months or so. Patience is paramount when collecting as released, so since it is just up to disk 3, it will be a while yet to achieve satisfaction. :D

The piano quintet as we usually think of it is composed of a string quartet (2 violins) and piano, except for Schubert's famous "Trout Quintet", right?  well, no, surprisingly enough, back at the cusp of the Classico-Romantic boundary (if you will concede such a thing), Schubert's "Trout" instruments were, in fact, the norm. Fortepiano, Violin, Viola, Cello and Baß. The first known quintet with these personnel was composed by Dussek <>1795, and the line extends up through the 1830's. The members of this group (The Nepomuk Fortepiano Quintet) have found manuscripts so far of over 20 different composers. BTW, these are on Brilliant, and an example of works that they commissioned themselves rather than licensed. These are the 3 disks released so far:



The works are (alphabetically):
Cramer Op 79 in Bb
Dussek Op 41 in f
Hummel Op 87 in eb (yes, e flat minor, not major as usually written. Right there on the front page of the manuscript!)
Limmer Op 13 in d
Onslow Op 76 in G
Ries Op 74 in b
Schubert D 667 in A

Limmer? OK, fair enough, he was new to me, too. He was born in Vienna in 1808 and became a composer early on. Actually wrote an amazing amount of highly regarded (at the time) music, ranging from masses to chamber works. And I have to say, if you get this disk, you might agree that this is a hidden jewel, possibly the best work in the set so far.

Anyway, the playing is excellent, the recorded sound is good, and they are virtually giving it away (I have paid less than $5 new for each disk so far). For the people who haunt this Corner, I strongly recommend if you want to hear some new repertoire or some old favorites. :)

8)





----------------
Listening to:
Shaham; Rouilly; Mork; Dangel; Reid; Jenny; Hefti - Beethoven Op 20 Septet in Eb 2nd mvmt - Adagio cantabile
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #428 on: April 24, 2009, 06:12:47 PM »
Limmer's first initial: G.?

Offline Sorin Eushayson

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 308
    • Classical Music Mayhem
  • Location: West Coast, USA
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #429 on: April 24, 2009, 10:57:51 PM »
Mozart also has a charming little quintet for piano & winds (oboe, clarinet, horn and bassoon), K. 452.  ;)

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #430 on: April 25, 2009, 07:38:15 AM »
Limmer's first initial: G.?

No, it's "S" actually. He looks rather dull and emaciated compared to his peers. Historically, men in that age went big for the chubby look to display their prosperity. The Limmer in question, S, rebelled against all that.... ;)

8)

----------------
Listening to:
Nepomuk Fortepiano Quintet - Cramer Op 79 Quintet in Bb for Piano & Strings 2nd mvmt - Adagio cantabile
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #431 on: April 25, 2009, 07:41:26 AM »
Mozart also has a charming little quintet for piano & winds (oboe, clarinet, horn and bassoon), K. 452.  ;)

True enough, although the instrumentation is way off base. In any case, I'll see your Wolfgang and raise you a pair of Ludwigs (Spohr & Beethoven) and you will end up with 3 pretty nice 5tets with piano and winds. Chamber music was pretty diverse in those days, eh?  :)

8)


----------------
Listening to:
Nepomuk Fortepiano Quintet - Cramer Op 79 Quintet in Bb for Piano & Strings 2nd mvmt - Adagio cantabile
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Sorin Eushayson

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 308
    • Classical Music Mayhem
  • Location: West Coast, USA
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #432 on: April 25, 2009, 08:06:01 AM »
True enough, although the instrumentation is way off base. In any case, I'll see your Wolfgang and raise you a pair of Ludwigs (Spohr & Beethoven) and you will end up with 3 pretty nice 5tets with piano and winds. Chamber music was pretty diverse in those days, eh?  :)
Yes indeed!  Nice for the ears, notosmuch for me when I try to categorise it all on my music player!  ;D

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #433 on: April 25, 2009, 08:10:41 AM »
Yes indeed!  Nice for the ears, notosmuch for me when I try to categorise it all on my music player!  ;D

Yeah, that's a problem. I have mixed feeling about it. I have solved the problem of "having music that I haven't heard" as described in the "Unopened CD's" thread by ripping everything, and then just double-clicking randomly in the "Local Media" list in WinAMP and letting it play whatever it wants to. It is my opinion that categorizing (for ME) is just too anal. :D

8)


----------------
Listening to:
Nepomuk Fortepiano Quintet - Dussek Op 41 Quintet in f for Fortepiano & Strings 3rd mvmt - Finale: Allegretto ma espressivo
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Sorin Eushayson

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 308
    • Classical Music Mayhem
  • Location: West Coast, USA
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #434 on: April 25, 2009, 09:03:53 AM »
Yeah, that's a problem. I have mixed feeling about it. I have solved the problem of "having music that I haven't heard" as described in the "Unopened CD's" thread by ripping everything, and then just double-clicking randomly in the "Local Media" list in WinAMP and letting it play whatever it wants to. It is my opinion that categorizing (for ME) is just too anal. :D
You're probably right.  I get lost and confused in my own music player when I don't have everything in order, though!

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #435 on: April 25, 2009, 09:10:35 AM »
You're probably right.  I get lost and confused in my own music player when I don't have everything in order, though!

Well, I only have 8 gigs on my MP3 player, so it is hard to get lost. But I have 220 gigs on my hard drive, and even though the file system keeps everything in perfect order, constantly choosing what to play can be an ordeal. I find myself listening to the same things all the time and ignoring other things that I really do like, but they just don't occur to me. This way, everything gets a chance. :)

8)

----------------
Listening to:
Nepomuk Fortepiano Quintet - Hummel Op 87 Quintet in eb for Fortepiano & Strings 4th mvmt - Allegro agitato
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Sorin Eushayson

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 308
    • Classical Music Mayhem
  • Location: West Coast, USA
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #436 on: April 27, 2009, 01:39:37 PM »
Well, I only have 8 gigs on my MP3 player, so it is hard to get lost. But I have 220 gigs on my hard drive, and even though the file system keeps everything in perfect order, constantly choosing what to play can be an ordeal. I find myself listening to the same things all the time and ignoring other things that I really do like, but they just don't occur to me. This way, everything gets a chance. :)
Speaking of which, when the great Gön does listen to music, what does he use?  Some top-of-the-line headcans, perhaps?

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #437 on: April 27, 2009, 02:45:34 PM »
Speaking of which, when the great Gön does listen to music, what does he use?  Some top-of-the-line headcans, perhaps?

Well, they're pretty good. I can't stand things stuck in my ears, so I needed phones, but portable. So I got some Sennheiser PX200 over the ear folding phones. And I notice the price is half what I paid a year ago... >:(  Anyway, they have very nice sound, and fold up small for portability. Sweet! :)

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline SonicMan46

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13146
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #438 on: April 27, 2009, 05:27:10 PM »
Well guys, I'm reporting tonight from a hotel room @ the Sheraton in Boston - I'm here on a short medical meeting which is quite hectic w/ activities, people to see, events to attend, etc. leaving little time to enjoy this great city!

Arrived on Saturday and had some 'time off' on Sunday, so was perusing what might be available to enjoy musically, and found a 'perfect fit' at least for me; that afternoon at the Boston Symphony Hall, the historic performance center for so many conductors of the past was the program below:

Haydn in London conducted by Sir Roger Norrington, and sponsored by the Handel & Haydn Society, which was established in Boston in 1815!  We showed up @ the box office early that afternoon & were able to get seats at orchestra level just to the right, but could see the performers well and Norrington's unique conducting and his wonderful facial expressions.

We were early enough to hear the pre-concert lecture by Michael Ruhing who wrote the program notes, and is current president of the Haydn Society of North American; he was a delightful speaker and 'laid' the background to Solomon's invitation to Haydn to visit London and the performance practices of the period - especially important was his comments on 'how' concerts of those days were often a mixture of orchestral, chamber, vocal, etc. works, even w/ the symphonies broken between other performances; he also emphasized that the audience applauded after each movement (and even w/i movements!) - Norrington insisted on applauds after each movement, would turn, and give a special gesture to the audience - quite delightful, different, and wonderful -  :D

The entire program lasted just 2 'short' hours including an intermission; below are the performances w/ a guest soprano - Nathalie Paulin; also, this was an orchestra of just about 3 dozen players w/ the winds duplicated; instruments of the times were used, including 'valveless' horns & trumpets, wooden flutes & clarinets, and a fortepiano:

Symphony No. 99 - first 2 movements.
Cantata: Scena di Berenice w/ Paulin
Symphony No. 99 - last 2 movements.
Intermission
English Songs (music by Haydn; words by Anne Hunter, wife of Dr. John Hunter)
Adagio from an earlier Divertimento played w/ 6 instruments
English Songs (as above); Paulin w/ the fortepiano
Symphony No. 92, Oxford - all movements to end the concert!

This will likely be the HIGHLIGHT of my 'short medical' trip to Boston; first visit to this historic Symphony Hall, Haydn (one of my favorite composers, if not @ the top?), a period instrument 'small' orchestra (the 'winds' just zoomed out the the ensemble brightly & clearly), and Sir Roger Norrington - could not ask for a better surprise!  Dave  :)


Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31782
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Gurn's Classical Corner
« Reply #439 on: April 27, 2009, 05:35:49 PM »
Crikey, Dave! How outstanding was that!!! And what a lineup of music. I am very pleased for you. Oh, was Karl there? I've heard he never misses one of those... :D   I look forward to the DVD (OK if it isn't Blu-Ray... ;) ).

Thanks for sharing,
8)

----------------
Listening to:
Andreas Staier, Daniel Sepec - Beethoven Op 23 Sonata #4 in a for Fortepiano & Violin 3rd mvmt - Allegro molto
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106