New Releases

[André]

Gardiner 59:43 and could have been two minutes faster if he had skipped some repeats in the scherzo.

The 1959 Munch BSO performance runs under 63 mins. The same forces gave a concert a couple of days before and it's under 60'. The concert performance  is available on the net and it sizzles. No scherzo repeat of course. Munch never met a repeat he liked.

[Karl Henning]

Gardiner 59:43 and could have been two minutes faster if he had skipped some repeats in the scherzo.

(* chortle *)

[Brian]

The British conductor George Smart, who was obsessed with how long performances took and kept a detailed diary of the length of everything he conducted, visited Beethoven in the late 1820s and asked how long the Ninth should go. Beethoven answered 45 minutes, though I suspect he was answering a stupid question with a stupid answer.  Smart may have been a silly pedant, but he was also one of the leading Beethoven interpreters and advocates in the composer's lifetime and gave major UK premieres.

Even stripping out every repeat in the scherzo it's hard to imagine a tolerable performance clocking in under 54' (13/10/11/20).

Here is my post from the research trip I made to document Smart's work, including his tempo obsession. You will observe that his live Ninth in 1830ish took...64 minutes! (But his Pastoral a mind boggling 32...)
https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12.msg503743.html#msg503743

[Mandryka]

Streaming in your neighbourhood now.

[Florestan]

Streaming in your neighbourhood now.

I'm game, thanks.

[Todd]

Can't remember if this showed up before.



But I know this has not.  I will promptly buy anything recorded by this dynamic duo.

No image yet, but the dynamic duo of Herbert Schuch and Gülru Ensari have a new disc coming out called In Search Of.  Will it be inspired by Proust or Spock?  No matter, it, too, shall be promptly snapped up.

Also, a new Chopin disc from Ivo Pogorelich is on the way.

[MusicTurner]

Has anyone recorded a shorter Op. 125?

Some old, fast recordings are Scherchen/RTSI 62:28, Leibowitz 62:11, Toscanini 1939 and Walter 1947 61:57. I don't know about the repeats there.

[Karl Henning]

Some old, fast recordings are Scherchen/RTSI 62:28, Leibowitz 62:11, Toscanini 1939 and Walter 1947 61:57. I don't know about the repeats there.

Interesting, thanks.

[MusicTurner]

The British conductor George Smart, who was obsessed with how long performances took and kept a detailed diary of the length of everything he conducted, visited Beethoven in the late 1820s and asked how long the Ninth should go. Beethoven answered 45 minutes, though I suspect he was answering a stupid question with a stupid answer.  Smart may have been a silly pedant, but he was also one of the leading Beethoven interpreters and advocates in the composer's lifetime and gave major UK premieres.

Even stripping out every repeat in the scherzo it's hard to imagine a tolerable performance clocking in under 54' (13/10/11/20).

Here is my post from the research trip I made to document Smart's work, including his tempo obsession. You will observe that his live Ninth in 1830ish took...64 minutes! (But his Pastoral a mind boggling 32...)
https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12.msg503743.html#msg503743

That's interesting, thanks. The short duration in the Pastoral Symphony is indeed extremely short. Scherchen/RTSI is 34:35, most HIP stuff seems to be a little more than 40 minutes.

[Mandryka]

https://karlrecords.bandcamp.com/album/electroacoustic-works

Freshly mixed.

[JBS]

Streaming in your neighbourhood now.

Presto is supposed to pop this in the mail to me Monday.

[Artem]

2CDs set

[Disc1]
John Cage
Sonatas and Interludes
for Prepared Piano (69 minutes)
Instrument used: New York Steinway Model B

[Disc2]
Morton Feldman
For Bunita Marcus
(75 min., live recording at Tokyo)
Instrument usued: FAZIOLI F278

https://www.hiroshiyokoyama.com/english/cd/

[Todd]

15 CDs.



10 CDs.

[Mandryka]

2CDs set

[Disc1]
John Cage
Sonatas and Interludes
for Prepared Piano (69 minutes)
Instrument used: New York Steinway Model B

[Disc2]
Morton Feldman
For Bunita Marcus
(75 min., live recording at Tokyo)
Instrument usued: FAZIOLI F278

https://www.hiroshiyokoyama.com/english/cd/

He already has a recording of the Feldman, which I intend to listen to tomorrow. But I'm most excited to find this -- on a little room sized organ by the sound of it, and really quite seductive playing.

[Mandryka]

https://darraghmorgan.bandcamp.com/album/music-for-violin-and-piano

[T. D.]

2CDs set

[Disc1]
John Cage
Sonatas and Interludes
for Prepared Piano (69 minutes)
Instrument used: New York Steinway Model B

[Disc2]
Morton Feldman
For Bunita Marcus
(75 min., live recording at Tokyo)
Instrument used: FAZIOLI F278

https://www.hiroshiyokoyama.com/english/cd/

Puzzled by the "Instrument used" stip for the Cage Sonatas and Interludes [emphasis added]. 
I'd think the preparations would be at least as important as the piano make, see for instance http://www.seattlepianoteacher.com/a-performers-guide-to-the-sonatas-and-interludes-for-prepared-piano/

Re. Steinway, here's an excerpt from the above link:

On that same item, in Cage's 1949 document, he states that the preferred piano for the Sonatas and Interludes is a Steinway M.  I think Cage confused the models of Steinways here.  Perhaps he was poorly informed of the exact model he used or simply mixed up the models.  In the table from the score, Cage measures the damper to bridge on the 2nd 'b' above middle 'c' as 4 7/16″ and to "adjust accordingly".  That measurement is the exact distance on a Steinway O, not an M.  Despite the claim of the 1949 document, the preferred piano would seem to actually be a Steinway O.  Below are photos of this measurement on a Steinway M (4 1/8″) and O (4 7/16″), respectively.

Steinway M pic



Steinway O pic

If the performer is ultimately looking for a higher level of authenticity, I believe it is in the best interest of the performer to prepare a Steinway O and experience the sound of that particular instrument and get to know it well. While you can take his measurements and "adjust accordingly," for other pianos, a better approach for me was to train my ear to the Steinway O and adjust the different piano based on my recollection of that sound.  I am fortunate enough to own a Steinway O and have a good friend that owns a piano consignment store who was kind enough to let me prepare several pianos of various makes and models.  I also believe this method of experimentation is in the nature of the music and will produce more interesting results than trying to emulate the sound of a past recording.  Many recordings, some of the most ubiquitous ones, actually fall short of Cage's intentions in these preparations.  But more on that later.

Aside from training the ear to the sounds of the prepared Steinway O, it is also beneficial to be acquainted with its design that can effect the preparations.  I prepared a Knabe concert-grand for a recital in Seattle that provided a few challenges and knowing the Steinway O design helped to overcome them.  The second-lowest 'd' in the bass that is prepared with a screw wrapped in rubber was insufficient for the Knabe.  This particular piano had three strings for that note.  Cage only asks for a preparation between strings 1 and 2 as there are not even three strings to prepare for that note on a Steinway O.  Without knowing this, that third string would continue to ring and dramatically change the intended thud-like sound created by that note. I added an extra piece of rubber between strings 2 and 3 at the spot of the screw to eliminate the ringing of this 3rd string and effectively make the note sound as it did on the Steinway O.  Another problem this piano had was three extra dampers than the Steinway O.  Since I had two hours to prepare the piano for the live performance and the bolts securing the action to the piano were stripped, I had no way to pull the action and take out the dampers.  The preparations could not be positioned correctly because these three dampers were in the way.  So I did the best I could with the time I had.  But still, I would not be able to fully understand these problems that had arisen—or  even that there was a problem—if I didn't have experience preparing the Steinway O.

[Spotted Horses]

I hold his first recordings of this music for EMI in high regard, and am anxiously awaiting this release.

[Mirror Image]

I hold his first recordings of this music for EMI in high regard, and am anxiously awaiting this release.

Do you prefer Collard to Scott in the solo piano works?

[Spotted Horses]

Do you prefer Collard to Scott in the solo piano works?

Stott, Collard, Doyen, Hubeau, Heidsieck all have their unique approach to this music, and I couldn't say I prefer any over the others.

[Mandryka]

Puzzled by the "Instrument used" stip for the Cage Sonatas and Interludes [emphasis added]. 
I'd think the preparations would be at least as important as the piano make, see for instance http://www.seattlepianoteacher.com/a-performers-guide-to-the-sonatas-and-interludes-for-prepared-piano/

Re. Steinway, here's an excerpt from the above link:

On that same item, in Cage's 1949 document, he states that the preferred piano for the Sonatas and Interludes is a Steinway M.  I think Cage confused the models of Steinways here.  Perhaps he was poorly informed of the exact model he used or simply mixed up the models.  In the table from the score, Cage measures the damper to bridge on the 2nd 'b' above middle 'c' as 4 7/16″ and to "adjust accordingly".  That measurement is the exact distance on a Steinway O, not an M.  Despite the claim of the 1949 document, the preferred piano would seem to actually be a Steinway O.  Below are photos of this measurement on a Steinway M (4 1/8″) and O (4 7/16″), respectively.

Steinway M pic



Steinway O pic

If the performer is ultimately looking for a higher level of authenticity, I believe it is in the best interest of the performer to prepare a Steinway O and experience the sound of that particular instrument and get to know it well. While you can take his measurements and "adjust accordingly," for other pianos, a better approach for me was to train my ear to the Steinway O and adjust the different piano based on my recollection of that sound.  I am fortunate enough to own a Steinway O and have a good friend that owns a piano consignment store who was kind enough to let me prepare several pianos of various makes and models.  I also believe this method of experimentation is in the nature of the music and will produce more interesting results than trying to emulate the sound of a past recording.  Many recordings, some of the most ubiquitous ones, actually fall short of Cage's intentions in these preparations.  But more on that later.

Aside from training the ear to the sounds of the prepared Steinway O, it is also beneficial to be acquainted with its design that can effect the preparations.  I prepared a Knabe concert-grand for a recital in Seattle that provided a few challenges and knowing the Steinway O design helped to overcome them.  The second-lowest 'd' in the bass that is prepared with a screw wrapped in rubber was insufficient for the Knabe.  This particular piano had three strings for that note.  Cage only asks for a preparation between strings 1 and 2 as there are not even three strings to prepare for that note on a Steinway O.  Without knowing this, that third string would continue to ring and dramatically change the intended thud-like sound created by that note. I added an extra piece of rubber between strings 2 and 3 at the spot of the screw to eliminate the ringing of this 3rd string and effectively make the note sound as it did on the Steinway O.  Another problem this piano had was three extra dampers than the Steinway O.  Since I had two hours to prepare the piano for the live performance and the bolts securing the action to the piano were stripped, I had no way to pull the action and take out the dampers.  The preparations could not be positioned correctly because these three dampers were in the way.  So I did the best I could with the time I had.  But still, I would not be able to fully understand these problems that had arisen—or  even that there was a problem—if I didn't have experience preparing the Steinway O.

I remember Joanna McGregor saying that one reason an authentic performance of these pieces is difficult is finding precisely the right nuts and bolts to shove into the piano.