Topic: Old Musical Instruments & Modern Reproductions!

[Gurn Blanston]

I have no idea why this thread presented as 'Locked'. I am unlocking it, have a go at it!

Gurn 

[SonicMan46]

Eric Hoeprich - clarinet virtuoso on period instruments, teacher, maker of his own period instruments, and author - brief beginning bio quoted below (see link for more) - astounding career.  I recently purchased the two Crusell CDs shown below (although I own other discs w/ him) - he plays his own personally made period reproduction clarinets on these recordings. Also, wrote the book The Clarinet (Yale University Press, 2008) but is listed at a ridiculous price on Amazon - will do some searching - likely a good read from the comments on Amazon!

SO, if you're into classical clarinet music, especially played on period instruments (restored ones or reproductions), then Hoeprich is worth exploring.  Dave

Eric Hoeprich is one of the world's leading exponents of the historical clarinet. He was born in Baltimore, MD, and has an honors degree in philosophy from Harvard. He teaches at the Paris Conservatoire, Indiana University’s Early Music Institute, and the Royal Conservatory in The Hague. For the past thirty years he has specialized in performing on the historical clarinet. His expertise as a musician, scholar, and instrument maker allows for a unique approach to the solo clarinet repertoire of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. (Source)

 

 

[bioluminescentsquid]

I know nothing about historical clarinets, what's the funny looking clarinet (?) he's holding?

[Gurn Blanston]

I know nothing about historical clarinets, what's the funny looking clarinet (?) he's holding?

It's a basset clarinet. It was invented in 1788 by Lotz, the premier clarinet maker of his time. It has 2 more (lower) tones than a regular clarinet. Not to be confused with a basset horn. There have been many shapes and sizes since that first one, but they all are the same instrument it terms of range and tone.

[SonicMan46]

I know nothing about historical clarinets, what's the funny looking clarinet (?) he's holding?

Well, that is a form of a basset clarinet (see quote below and check link for a more thorough explanation); basically, plays some lower notes - the classical clarinet player, Anton Stadler inspired Mozart to write some beautiful pieces for the instrument, including his Clarinet Concerto & Quintet - check back in this thread - I'm sure there is further discussion and likely some CD recommendations; but if you are interested in obtaining some recordings of 'historic' basset clarinet playing (as held by Hoeprich), then just ask.  Dave

The basset clarinet is a clarinet similar to the usual soprano clarinet but longer and with additional keys to enable playing several additional lower notes. Typically a basset clarinet has keywork going to a low (written) C or B,[1][2] as opposed to the standard clarinet's E or E♭. The basset clarinet is most commonly a transposing instrument in A, although basset clarinets in C and B♭ and very seldom in G also exist.[3] The similarly named basset horn is also a clarinet with extended lower range, but is in a lower pitch (typically F); the basset horn predates, and undoubtedly inspired, the basset clarinet. (Source)

[bioluminescentsquid]

Well, that is a form of a basset clarinet (see quote below and check link for a more thorough explanation); basically, plays some lower notes - the classical clarinet player, Anton Stadler inspired Mozart to write some beautiful pieces for the instrument, including his Clarinet Concerto & Quintet - check back in this thread - I'm sure there is further discussion and likely some CD recommendations; but if you are interested in obtaining some recordings of 'historic' basset clarinet playing (as held by Hoeprich), then just ask.  Dave

It's a basset clarinet. It was invented in 1788 by Lotz, the premier clarinet maker of his time. It has 2 more (lower) tones than a regular clarinet. Not to be confused with a basset horn. There have been many shapes and sizes since that first one, but they all are the same instrument it terms of range and tone.

Thank you both!

[Szykneij]

Thanks to Gurn for reopening this thread. Re-reading the entire thing brought back some forgotten memories. Now that I have more time in my retirement, I can focus on some neglected interests. Below is a candidate for my next restoration project with background music provided by zither and cimbalom.

[Szykneij]

I posted this in the "Music and Mail" thread, but I think it deserves a place here.

[SonicMan46]

Thanks to Gurn for reopening this thread. Re-reading the entire thing brought back some forgotten memories. Now that I have more time in my retirement, I can focus on some neglected interests. Below is a candidate for my next restoration project with background music provided by zither and cimbalom.

Hi Tony - first, enjoy your entirement!    Second, glad to see some activity in this thread again.  Should be a fun project - good luck!  Dave

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Sorry, I'm having trouble finding the post, but to the poster wanting to find a copy of Eric Hoeprich's book on the clarinet, I would suggest contacting Yale University Press directly and asking them whether or not they have more plans on printing more copies of his book.  Also, for example, I wanted to and managed to get a copy of an Oxford University Press book by Michael Kennedy on Vaughan Williams.  It turned out that they have a kind of print-on-demand.  It was a paperback copy for I think $35?

I did see the (Horribly high) amounts asked for online; even if they don't currently have a print-on-demand possibility, I suspect that if they heard more from people interested in this book that they might consider it.  Just a suggestion.

PD

p.s.  The original hard cover copy is listed at $50 and out-of-stock on their website as of now.

[SonicMan46]

Sorry, I'm having trouble finding the post, but to the poster wanting to find a copy of Eric Hoeprich's book on the clarinet, I would suggest contacting Yale University Press directly and asking them whether or not they have more plans on printing more copies of his book.  Also, for example, I wanted to and managed to get a copy of an Oxford University Press book by Michael Kennedy on Vaughan Williams.  It turned out that they have a kind of print-on-demand.  It was a paperback copy for I think $35?

I did see the (Horribly high) amounts asked for online; even if they don't currently have a print-on-demand possibility, I suspect that if they heard more from people interested in this book that they might consider it.  Just a suggestion.

PD

p.s.  The original hard cover copy is listed at $50 and out-of-stock on their website as of now.

Thanks PD for your comments - I was the one who posted about the book on the clarinet.  I've been to the Yale University Press website and saw the OOP notification and the $50 price - did not leave an email but will do; also Eric Hoeprich has an email address at Indiana University (where he teaches - assume periodically) which I might get his input if he replies?  My wife has gotten me a number of borrowed books in North Carolina by using the inter-library loan options - she's working on it now - we have a lot of musical university programs here and many likely have the book.  Dave

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Thanks PD for your comments - I was the one who posted about the book on the clarinet.  I've been to the Yale University Press website and saw the OOP notification and the $50 price - did not leave an email but will do; also Eric Hoeprich has an email address at Indiana University (where he teaches - assume periodically) which I might get his input if he replies?  My wife has gotten me a number of borrowed books in North Carolina by using the inter-library loan options - she's working on it now - we have a lot of musical university programs here and many likely have the book.  Dave

You're welcome!  And let us know how your quest turns out. 

PD

p.s.  And isn't inter-library loan great!  And a big hand to all of the librarians working hard to fulfill all of our book/dvd/cd, etc. needs (and a lot of them just being 'wants') during a pandemic!

[Szykneij]

https://www.dw.com/en/nazi-looted-art-dispute-over-guarneri-violin/a-56360977

I saw this article this morning. If only these old instruments could speak, I'm sure they would have some incredible stories to tell (like in the film "The Red Violin")

My violin of choice is a Guarneri model, based on one of his 1727 creations. During my violin restoration phase when I was attempting to find copies of all the major makers, I bumped into someone I knew in a coffee shop. He dealt in antiques and mentioned he had just acquired an instrument I might be interested in. He was right, and it's the one I've played ever since.

I'm glad the violin in the article will continue to be played by young musicians, whatever the outcome. It's a sin that so many excellent instruments go unused, locked away or hung on walls. A former student of mine used to babysit for a family because they had a beautiful grand piano she could practice on when they were gone. (No one in that family played it.)

[Pohjolas Daughter]

https://www.dw.com/en/nazi-looted-art-dispute-over-guarneri-violin/a-56360977

I saw this article this morning. If only these old instruments could speak, I'm sure they would have some incredible stories to tell (like in the film "The Red Violin")

My violin of choice is a Guarneri model, based on one of his 1727 creations. During my violin restoration phase when I was attempting to find copies of all the major makers, I bumped into someone I knew in a coffee shop. He dealt in antiques and mentioned he had just acquired an instrument I might be interested in. He was right, and it's the one I've played ever since.

I'm glad the violin in the article will continue to be played by young musicians, whatever the outcome. It's a sin that so many excellent instruments go unused, locked away or hung on walls. A former student of mine used to babysit for a family because they had a beautiful grand piano she could practice on when they were gone. (No one in that family played it.)

Neat!  Do you know who made the repro and when?  And any sense as to how close in sound it is to the original?  And thank you for the link to that article.  Another heartbreaking story from the Nazi era.

I hope that they are able to settle things soon. I wonder from whom they are trying to get the money to pay the grandchildren?  An insurance company?

Do you do violin repairs as a side-business?

PD

[Szykneij]

Neat!  Do you know who made the repro and when?  And any sense as to how close in sound it is to the original?  And thank you for the link to that article.  Another heartbreaking story from the Nazi era.

I hope that they are able to settle things soon. I wonder from whom they are trying to get the money to pay the grandchildren?  An insurance company?

Do you do violin repairs as a side-business?

PD

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about my Guarneri repro other than it sounds great. As far as how the originals sounded, we can only imagine.

Regarding the article, I believe they are trying to get the money through donations.

When I was teaching, the school system had a fleet of string instruments for the kids to use. When those that were too severely damaged to make the cost of repair worth it, they were put out of commission. I decide that, since they were never going to be used again otherwise, I'd try to repair them. I did research, learned a lot by trial and error, and eventually took some actual repair workshops.

For a time, I purchased damaged instruments and repaired them for students who couldn't afford new ones. Unfortunately, I'm not skilled enough to be considered an actual luthier.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about my Guarneri repro other than it sounds great. As far as how the originals sounded, we can only imagine.

Regarding the article, I believe they are trying to get the money through donations.

When I was teaching, the school system had a fleet of string instruments for the kids to use. When those that were too severely damaged to make the cost of repair worth it, they were put out of commission. I decide that, since they were never going to be used again otherwise, I'd try to repair them. I did research, learned a lot by trial and error, and eventually took some actual repair workshops.

For a time, I purchased damaged instruments and repaired them for students who couldn't afford new ones. Unfortunately, I'm not skilled enough to be considered an actual luthier.

I don't know much about the reproduction market.  Any sense of how many copies have been made say of certain well-loved/popular violins there are out there?

That was very generous of you to try and learn how to repair instruments and for helping out your students like that!    I've heard (for years) about the decline in offerings for music classes and many schools struggling to buy instruments for their students. 

PD

[Szykneij]

I don't know much about the reproduction market.  Any sense of how many copies have been made say of certain well-loved/popular violins there are out there?

That was very generous of you to try and learn how to repair instruments and for helping out your students like that!    I've heard (for years) about the decline in offerings for music classes and many schools struggling to buy instruments for their students. 

PD

The vast majority of student violins being made now and over the years (certainly numbering in the hundreds of thousands, if not greater) are Stradivarius copies. It's not unusual for an unaware individual to find one in an attic or antique shop with a label that says "Stradivarius" and think they have discovered a valuable treasure!

[Pohjolas Daughter]

The vast majority of student violins being made now and over the years (certainly numbering in the hundreds of thousands, if not greater) are Stradivarius copies. It's not unusual for an unaware individual to find one in an attic or antique shop with a label that says "Stradivarius" and think they have discovered a valuable treasure!

Unless they had a relative who was a very famous violinist, probably not! 

[(: premont :)]

The vast majority of student violins being made now and over the years (certainly numbering in the hundreds of thousands, if not greater) are Stradivarius copies.

But I suppose they are not true historically informed baroque copies.

[Szykneij]

But I suppose they are not true historically informed baroque copies.

Correct. For one thing, the necks of the originals were different than those required for more modern playing techniques. At some point during the 19th century, grafts were used to increase the neck length and angle of older instruments. I believe every genuine Strad in existence underwent that process at some point.