The Bach Cantatas

[Dancing Divertimentian]

David, allow me to answer that instead: yes, Coin is HIP.

Q

David,

As Q said...well, you get the message...

[Marc]

 My favorite cantatas from those purchased are the 60s series (61-63 are simply outstanding).

The opening choir (and tenor aria) of BWV 62!
Very exciting indeed. Maybe a bit too exciting with Gardiner, though. I miss the longing in his interpretation.

[Tancata]

Two beautiful cantatas I've been listening to lately are BWV 55 "Ich armer Mensch, ich Sundenknecht" and BWV 134 "Ein Herz, das seinen Jesum lebend weiß". The former I haven't been able to put away since I heard Mark Padmore do it in Edinburgh a few weeks ago. The latter is simply a damn fine cantata - one of my favourites - that I have overlooked until very recently. There is a fine tenor aria "Auf, Glaeubige, singet die lieblichen Lieder" but the two high points are a stunning duet for alto and tenor, "Wir danken und preisen..." and the elaborate closing chorus "Erschallet ihr Himmel, erfreue dich, Erde".

[marvinbrown]

The opening choir (and tenor aria) of BWV 62!
Very exciting indeed. Maybe a bit too exciting with Gardiner, though. I miss the longing in his interpretation.

Yes there is a lot of excitement with Gardiner, but I took to it rather well.  Its quite refreshing to hear a different interpretation (as oppossed to a subdued one voice per part recording) every once in awhile.

  marvin

[DavidW]

I want to hear HIP Bach Cantatas, haven't since the brilliant classics set, I might check out Coin then if it's highly rec'd here.  Is it highly rec'd here?

[Que]

I believe I've posted this before on the old forum:

A great reference book on Bach's cantatas - includes all texts in English & German.
IMO a must-have for Bach cantata lovers (Click picture for link to Amazon.com)



I was a bit taken aback by the price btw. 
The German-only edition that I have myself is considerably cheaper (click here)

Q

[knight66]

I've been going through the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt set in BWV order. Up to 128 or so. The soprano aria in 127 with oboe obbligato and pizzicato strings must be one of Bach's greatest.

Yes, another aria to give the lie that Bach was not a melodist. What nonsense.

Mike

[DavidW]

Yes, another aria to give the lie that Bach was not a melodist. What nonsense.

Mike

Hey wait what?  Where did this come from?  So confused.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Hey wait what?  Where did this come from?  So confused.

David,

I think Mike's referring to the egregious stereotype that seems to dog Bach wherever he goes: that he's the master of highly complex musical forms and little else.

A skilled mathematician who missed his calling, I believe is how it goes...

[71 dB]

David,

I think Mike's referring to the egregious stereotype that seems to dog Bach wherever he goes: that he's the master of highly complex musical forms and little else.

A skilled mathematician who missed his calling, I believe is how it goes...

I think "the master of highly complex musical forms" includes being a melodist...

Melodies do not dominate J. S. Bach's music. Perhaps that's why some people say he wasn't a melodist?

[knight66]

David,

I think Mike's referring to the egregious stereotype that seems to dog Bach wherever he goes: that he's the master of highly complex musical forms and little else.

A skilled mathematician who missed his calling, I believe is how it goes...

Yep, That's it. I recall at least two threads where people weighed in to claim that Bach could not write memorable melodies, some people here must be deaf.

Mike

[Don]

Yep, That's it. I recall at least two threads where people weighed in to claim that Bach could not write memorable melodies, some people here must be deaf.

Mike

If not deaf, they are lazy listeners.

[Marc]

I've been going through the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt set in BWV order. Up to 128 or so. The soprano aria in 127 with oboe obbligato and pizzicato strings must be one of Bach's greatest.

Yes, another aria to give the lie that Bach was not a melodist. What nonsense.

Melodist or not a melodist; he composed the alto aria "Ich will auch mit gebrochnen Augen...." (Cantata BWV 125: Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin)! So what the [.... ] are we talking about??
A Dutch writer once wrote something like: if that piece had been composed for one of his Passions, it would have been his most famous aria. Well, there are already some incredible arias in those Passions, but this one is very special indeed. Flute, oboe d'amore in an ethereal ensemble (yet with striking dissonances), combined with mesmerizing playing of the basso continuo. The man certainly was touched by .... God?

[Que]

I've been going through the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt set in BWV order. Up to 128 or so. The soprano aria in 127 with oboe obbligato and pizzicato strings must be one of Bach's greatest.

Brought my girlfriend to tears every time I played that recording.
Sterling Bach!

(127 = "Herr Jesu Christ, wahr' Mensch und Gott", the aria is called "Die Seele ruht in Jesu Händen")

Q

[Marc]

Back to basics

What are  your favourite Bach cantatas?
Which cantatas are you currently listening to?

Favourite Bach cantatas; I already mentioned one: BWV 84. I'll name other favourites later on , but right now I'm listening to BWV 14 Wär Gott nicht mit uns diese Zeit, starting with a tremendous opening choral choir, which has the grandeur of a motet. There's also a great bass aria "Gott, bei deinem starken Schützen". with two lovely oboes circling around, added with a firm basso continuo part.
One of those works I very rarely listen to, and by neglecting them giving myself the opportunity to rediscover them. Ain't that great?

[Que]

The best Bach cantatas are the most incredibly beautiful music my ears ever have had the bliss to encounter.

Not every cantate is as inspired as those undeniable highlights like BWV 4, 22, 78, 106, et cetera. But when Bach had an off-day, he was still better than most of his colleages.

Beware, though, because there has been a tendency among a certain group of malicious conductors to make the terrible mistake of thinking that Bach wrote his cantatas and passions for one voice per part. This curious misunderstanding has been growing eversince a dubious publication by Joshua Rifkin appeared, around 1981. McCreesh, Junghänel and Rifkin himself are famous for conducting these one-voice-per-part-performances. Usually, these interpretations have a lot of merits, but they fail horribly in being true to Bach's wishes. It simply contradicts the whole aesthetic of of baroque music.

The Koopman-cycle is about the closest you can get to authenticity. The sublime Suzuki-cycle is essential for those who favor sheer beauty to authenticity. You gotta love it. For most cantatas Suzuki delivers angel-like performances. One wonders: can this get any more beautiful? Somewhere in between appears the cycle by Gardiner, who sometimes makes shocking musical interpretations, but is experienced enough to deliver outstanding performances overall.

Forget and throw away Harnoncourt/Leonhardt.

Not in a million years!  
BTW - while you're at it: throw them in the direction of Bill (Bogey), he would be most happy to catch them...

For differentiation, buy some cantata-cd's by Herreweghe.

They are very nice.

Useful advice for everybody who, like me, once made the grave mistake of buying the complete Brilliant-cycle by Leusink: remove the front and back covers, throw away the cd's, and use the empty jewel cases to replace broken ones.

The 'whig head' rules.

Q

[beclemund]

Incidentally, for those looking to sip from multiple cups of the most recent Bach cantata cycles and who do not mind listening via high quality downloads, emusic has recently added to their store collections from Gardiner, Herreweghe, Koopman, Rilling and Suzuki. You get 50 free downloads with a trial membership, so you can try something different from each cycle or stack up your favorite cantata from each conductor.

Personally, I really enjoy the CD releases of each, but I intend to focus on the Gardiner releases because I find them quite enjoyable to listen to, and I think the whole package and presentation is quite good (I have said as much earlier in this thread). But I have not been disappointed by the Suzuki or Herreweghe releases either. I own some on CD and some from emusic downloads.

Over the last year, the music department here at the university in cooperation with a university based museum on the campus where I work has been presenting Bach cantatas during the lunch hour every last Tuesday of the month. I even managed to get a handful of my work colleagues to take in the show last month and all had a great time. The *fortunate* effect of the experience has been a renewed interest in Bach's cantatas. While I cannot say I have specific favorite cantatas, I can say there is much to appreciate in every one of the ones that I have heard.

[Que]

This new issue seems a very pleasant surprise!! 
Very good singers and I suspect that accompaniment by Café Zimmermann will be excellent.


                      click picture for link

Q

[Bogey]

How many volumes of the Gardiner cycle are out?  When I look at the lists there seems to be some holes in the volume numbers.  Is this correct or are some OOP?

And, are the Gardiner recordings the closest thing to the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt recordings?

[knight66]

I think that the intent is to issue them all, but they are not being issued in what I can detect as being an entirely logical order.

Here is a link to the site.
http://www.monteverdiproductions.co.uk/about_us/sdg.cfm

This particular page has a drop down box and clarifies what is available.

http://www.monteverdiproductions.co.uk/shop/

The BBC Mag has some Gardiner CD recordings of Bach Christmas music on its Dec issue. I have not had a chance to listen to it yet.

Mike