Brahms VC

[Bunny]

I suspected as much.

As is usual, the BBC plays the recording chosen that weekend, now, on the following Monday morning.

It was mightily impressive. He doesn't mess around with the tempo and receives strong support from Abbado.

Truly inspired, imo, on first hearing.

I picked up the recording at Yourmusic or the the other BMG music club for next to nothing, and I was surprised to hear what was a perfect violin concerto.  Shaham's performance is that good, and as you have written, Abbado was in strong support.  I think the problem with the double concerto is Gian Wang, who to my mind has tons of talent, but is an extremely conflicted individual.  I don't know what the story is with him, but what I have heard of his work is very strange, especially his Bach cello suites which sound as if he hates performing.  In any event, if you can find the recording at a good price, it's a definite buy, because I don't think you will find a modern recording of the Brahms v/c that can better it.

Well, I found the recording at Arkivmusic.com, and they have David Hurwitz's review (10/10 for the V/C alone).  Here's a link if you want to see it. 

[Steve]

I picked up the recording at Yourmusic or the the other BMG music club for next to nothing, and I was surprised to hear what was a perfect violin concerto.  Shaham's performance is that good, and as you have written, Abbado was in strong support.  I think the problem with the double concerto is Gian Wang, who to my mind has tons of talent, but is an extremely conflicted individual.  I don't know what the story is with him, but what I have heard of his work is very strange, especially his Bach cello suites which sound as if he hates performing.  In any event, if you can find the recording at a good price, it's a definite buy, because I don't think you will find a modern recording of the Brahms v/c that can better it.

Well, I found the recording at Arkivmusic.com, and they have David Hurwitz's review (10/10 for the V/C alone).  Here's a link if you want to see it. 

That would certainly explain the disparity between the excellent Violin Concerto, and the less than spectacular Double.
Still, I felt that tempi were a little rushed in the Double Concerto. So it wasn't just the spotty playing by Wang.

[dirkronk]

Since he hasn't yet been mentioned on this particular thread, I'll inject the name of Szeryng. His Brahms VC with Monteux is a classic account and beautifully recorded. Harry Collier (in his earlier survey) opined that Szeryng's performance, though justly famous, lacked the distinct personality or approach that others brought to this concerto. I do understand Harry's point of view--but recently heard the filmed version with Szeryng and Paray on an EMI DVD, which I think may provide listeners with a much more in-the-moment experience AND a fresher approach than the Monteux recording.

My personal pantheon includes Heifetz/Reiner, Krebbers/Haitink, and Oistrakh/Szell in the stereo realm. I hesitate to list near-the-top and historic performances, lest I keep typing all afternoon.


Dirk

[Rabin_Fan]

My personal pantheon includes Heifetz/Reiner, Krebbers/Haitink, and Oistrakh/Szell in the stereo realm. I hesitate to list near-the-top and historic performances, lest I keep typing all afternoon.

Dirk

I will re-listen to the Szeryng but it did not strike me as special. Of your 3 above, Heifetz-R feels hasty relative to Milstein-Fistoulari, Krebbers very nice at a slower tempo (not great technique but very musical), Oistrakh-Szell has one of the most gorgeous 2nd mvt (poor triple stopping in the 1st mvt).

[dirkronk]

I will re-listen to the Szeryng but it did not strike me as special. Of your 3 above, Heifetz-R feels hasty relative to Milstein-Fistoulari, Krebbers very nice at a slower tempo (not great technique but very musical), Oistrakh-Szell has one of the most gorgeous 2nd mvt (poor triple stopping in the 1st mvt).

Milstein/Fistoulari is on my shortlist to acquire and hear. Normally, I love Milstein, but have been less thrilled by his Steinberg Brahms (in contrast to their Beethoven, which is one of my favorites) and just recently acquired the Sabata. Perhaps the Fistoulari will be the one from Milstein that I've awaited!

As for the Heifetz/Reiner, I pretty much cut my teeth on it, so the pacing, phrasing, everything sounds as I expect from the music...natch. Still, here's an odd thing about that performance: I've owned (and still own) assorted transfers on vinyl, and find that the early mono transfer (that is, the one on maroon label LP in the US) has far more satisfying overall balance than any of the stereo transfers, including those on CD reissues. This balance issue is so striking that, when I first heard it, I thought that it might actually be a different take/performance. No, I'm not seriously suggesting that it WAS a different one, just that it seemed that way. Far from being just my opinion, two of my most trusted listening buddies have heard and commented on the same thing. Anyone else happen to note this in your listening?

For years, I've used the Beethoven violin concerto as a sort of basis against which to check each violinist's technique and style, and thus I have dozens of versions. Still, I've recently noticed that my accumulation of Brahms VCs is beginning to rival the Beethoven stash. One of these days, I MUST do a serious spin-off.

Dirk

[MishaK]

Milstein/Fistoulari is on my shortlist to acquire and hear. Normally, I love Milstein, but have been less thrilled by his Steinberg Brahms (in contrast to their Beethoven, which is one of my favorites) and just recently acquired the Sabata. Perhaps the Fistoulari will be the one from Milstein that I've awaited!

That was my attitude as well until Rabin-fan convinced me to  hear the Fistoulari (actually it was more the low price of the disc). It is very different than the Steinberg version. So now I squarely blame Steinberg for his charmless conducting. 

[Rabin_Fan]

Milstein/Fistoulari is on my shortlist to acquire and hear. Normally, I love Milstein, but have been less thrilled by his Steinberg Brahms (in contrast to their Beethoven, which is one of my favorites) and just recently acquired the Sabata. Perhaps the Fistoulari will be the one from Milstein that I've awaited!

As for the Heifetz/Reiner, I pretty much cut my teeth on it, so the pacing, phrasing, everything sounds as I expect from the music...natch. Still, here's an odd thing about that performance: I've owned (and still own) assorted transfers on vinyl, and find that the early mono transfer (that is, the one on maroon label LP in the US) has far more satisfying overall balance than any of the stereo transfers, including those on CD reissues. This balance issue is so striking that, when I first heard it, I thought that it might actually be a different take/performance. No, I'm not seriously suggesting that it WAS a different one, just that it seemed that way. Far from being just my opinion, two of my most trusted listening buddies have heard and commented on the same thing. Anyone else happen to note this in your listening?

For years, I've used the Beethoven violin concerto as a sort of basis against which to check each violinist's technique and style, and thus I have dozens of versions. Still, I've recently noticed that my accumulation of Brahms VCs is beginning to rival the Beethoven stash. One of these days, I MUST do a serious spin-off.

Dirk

Dirk - you MUST hear the Milstein-Fistoulari! It is on a 6CD EMI box. I also have 1 French EMI CD with his Bruch VC 1 (Barzin). You did not say anything about de Sabata. I am awaiting comments about the Jochum DG version too. The proof is in the listening. You WILL NOT regret buying the Fistoulari version. (I did not like the Steinberg Beethoven - the middle section in 1 mvt when it goes to G minor and the rhythm is quaver (eighth note) followed by 2 semiquavers (16th notes). Milstein makes them sound like crushed semiquavers.

O Mensch - Glad you picked up the Fistoulari - it is different from what Milstein usually produces - I think the Jochum version as not so interesting without any fiery-ness. When I went to Singapore a year or so ago, this one (Fistoulari) really caught my ears. I'm glad I got it.     Cheers R-F

[Rabin_Fan]

I think there are two more Brahms VC Milstein CDs (with Bruno Walter on Archipel and P Monteux on Tahra). Any comments on these?

[Rabin_Fan]

A check on Amazon.com reveals much enthusiasm for the Milstein-Fistoulari version.

[Harry Collier]

and I am waiting to hear the recent version of Julia Fischer

It's OK. Well played. Very "classical" and leisurely tempi. If there were no other versions around, it would be worth investigating. I bought it .. because I buy them all. But it won't be on my turntable too often (the Brahms double with which it is coupled is a good buy, however).

[Rabin_Fan]

Listened to the Milstein-Fistoulari version wide-eyed today whilst driving to work - stunning - it combines Heifetz-like technique with some Oistrakh-like warmth with some very expressive playing.

[Sergeant Rock]

Listened to the Milstein-Fistoulari version wide-eyed today whilst driving to work - stunning - it combines Heifetz-like technique with some Oistrakh-like warmth with some very expressive playing.

Lee, I've heard you extolling this version for years now (in the Gramophone forum too, three, four years ago?). Okay, I finally bought it. This better be damn good 

Sarge

[Steve]

I've just heard an excellent vintage recording of this concerto with Fritz Kreisler. Ahh, what deft playing! 

[Rabin_Fan]

Lee, I've heard you extolling this version for years now (in the Gramophone forum too, three, four years ago?). Okay, I finally bought it. This better be damn good 
Sarge

Well, if you bought the Seraphim CD - it is pretty cheap. No loss to you if you don't like it. Just a few bucks. Milstein was a violinist that I did not like when I was younger - too cool perhaps - but when I heard this version, it sounds like he was a different man - so fiery, expressive, etc. Hope you like it.

[Rabin_Fan]

Heard the Milstein-Fistoulari, Heifetz-Reiner and Krebbers in succession during the drive to work today.

For fiery-ness, Milstein is tops. Heifetz's last mvt is not very stable in terms of rhythm. Krebbers is excellent for rhythm in the last mvt.

[RebLem]

Lots of those mentioned are worthy performances, but to me, the greatest Brahms VC recording of all is Szeryng/Monteux/LSO.

[Rabin_Fan]

I also listened to the Krebbers-Haitink version with the RCOA today with starry eyes. It is very strong in terms of rhythm, lyricism and Krebbers' technique & tone are superb.

[Sergeant Rock]

Well, if you bought the Seraphim CD - it is pretty cheap. No loss to you if you don't like it. Just a few bucks. Milstein was a violinist that I did not like when I was younger - too cool perhaps - but when I heard this version, it sounds like he was a different man - so fiery, expressive, etc. Hope you like it.

Yes, the Seraphim. They were practically giving it away so, yes, it was no financial burden. I still haven't listened to it. Got caught up in my new Shostakovich cycle.  Maybe tonight after dinner I'll have a chance to take a close listen and do a little comparative listening too.

Sarge

[Xenophanes]

A good piece of music that I enjoy..

Only I only have Perlman/Barenboim - I want one other recording. What should I get?

The Brahms VC is a very strong piece and works well with some different approaches. My own favorite is Zino Francescatti with Leonard Bernstein and the NYPO, though it cries out for some refurbishing of the orchestral sound which is a bit hard. He seems to do more interpretatively with it than anyone else I have heard. His tempos are middling fast. The coupling is a very good Sibelius VC, though it's not my favorite (Ricci/Fjelstad).

A safer general recommendation is Heifetz/Reiner, played as usual faster than anyone else.  But it is a terrific performance, very exciting, and beautiful in the slow movement, too, pretty well-recorded and I believe there is a sonically refurbished issue out now.

For a bit slower performance, Oistrakh/Szell is wonderfully well done, very beautiful and lyrical.

[op.110]

The Brahms VC is a very strong piece

To say the least 

For a bit slower performance, Oistrakh/Szell is wonderfully well done, very beautiful and lyrical.

Agreed! His playing is so warm and dramatically lyrical.