Classical music or art music?

[Harpo]

I'm sure this is a tired old question here, but is the term "classical music" a misnomer when referring to the whole range of serious music? "Classical" is a specific historic period. People have tried to find more generic terms, one of which is "art music." What think? To me, terms other than "classical music" sound contrived, though perhaps more correct.

[DavidRoss]

I agree.   Everyone knows what we're talking about when we say "classical music," and no one has trouble distinguishing the broad category from the narrow.  "Art music" is pretentious as all get out...and it more accurately describes the stuff that Laurie Anderson does.  Note, too, that there's a lot of serious music--for instance, jazz--that is not classical.

[Harpo]

I once saw Itzhak Perlman on TV with some children. They asked him about "playing classical music" and he responded to them as if they were talking about the Classical Period only--rather condescending. I wonder what "Itz" would call the entire genre.   

Once we stayed at the same hotel Itz did in Paris and we came down in the elevator together. I was too shy to say anything, but somehow I don't think I would have gotten a friendly response.

He played in my city not long ago and got probably a half dozen curtain calls. Each time he struggled out on his crutches. For me that somehow changed the mood from "isn't he wonderful" to "poor guy."

But I digress.

[karlhenning]

"Art music" is pretentious as all get out...

(Oops.)

[prémont]

Two quotes from Wikipedia:

Classical music is a broad term that usually refers to mainstream music produced in, or rooted in the traditions of Western liturgical and secular music, encompassing a broad period from roughly the 9th century to present times.

and:

The term "classical music" did not appear until the early 19th century, in an attempt to "canonize" the period from Johann Sebastian Bach to Beethoven as a golden age.

Which one do you prefer?

[Harpo]

I like the first one, of course, since it's the common usage. Anything else is pretentious. 

[ChamberNut]

Welcome aboard GMG, Harpo!    I hope you enjoy it here.

[prémont]

I like the first one, of course, since it's the common usage. Anything else is pretentious. 

Agreed.

[mwb]

And heck just muck it up a little I love referring to Indian music where Classical music has yet another "meaning."

Of course that not the only use of the term in World music, but it is probably the most prominent. And is the basis for referring to Western Classical (broader genre like our forum name) as such rather than solely Classical as solely the period.

[jhar26]

I'm sure this is a tired old question here, but is the term "classical music" a misnomer when referring to the whole range of serious music? "Classical" is a specific historic period.

Yes, but the term "pop(ular) music also covers a huge range of music - anything from Doris Day to the Sex Pistols. As a 'genre' I guess acts like, say, Abba or the Beach Boys qualify as pop music and Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart don't. But in a broader sense anything that isn't classical is put in the pop(ular) category.

People have tried to find more generic terms, one of which is "art music." What think? To me, terms other than "classical music" sound contrived, though perhaps more correct.

"Art music" is a name that would scare possible new fans away in my opinion. Many an average guy/girl would think that it would be beyond him/her to enjoy it. "Serious music" is even worse - it makes it sound as though there's no fun to be had with classical music and that it's exclusively for bald old men in suits. "Classical music" is maybe not a perfect name, but it still sounds best to me.

[Guido]

"Art music" is a name that would scare possible new fans away in my opinion. Many an average guy/girl would think that it would be beyond him/her to enjoy it.

Erm... anyone who gets scared away by the word "Art" is not going to get far exploring any art form...

[DavidRoss]

Erm... anyone who gets scared away by the word "Art" is not going to get far exploring any art form...

It's not the word "art" but the pretentiousness of the term "art music" that would keep most folks with common sense as far away as they can get.  It suggests pompous bigots looking down their noses at folks they wrongly imagine their inferiors.

[karlhenning]

I've used "art music" in the past, and the suggestion that the phrase is irredeemably pretentious fills me with a nameless fear.  Probably I first heard the phrase used by music history and music theory teachers, and to my ear it sounded fairly innocent as a parallel to "art-song" (a synonym for Lied or chanson, and as distinct from your garden variety folksong).

Maybe the environment (as partly indicated by the present discussion) has poisoned its potential use, and any notion of elevating art as either purpose or achievement is rightly to be smacked down as uppity.

I am a bit nervous at being (by implication) thus retroactively accused of pretension.

Or maybe I stand currently accused of pretension, who knows 

[nut-job]

How about just pretentious music. 

[jhar26]

I've used "art music" in the past, and the suggestion that the phrase is irredeemably pretentious fills me with a nameless fear. 

It's not pretentious as such, but I think that it's perceived as pretentious by a lot of people.

[karlhenning]

Well, I overstated the res, I suppose.

[Josquin des Prez]

Interesting. I'm going to say "art music" from now on since i enjoy being an elitist bastard looking down upon all the unworthy undermenschen.

[prémont]

It's not the word "art" but the pretentiousness of the term "art music" that would keep most folks with common sense as far away as they can get.  It suggests pompous bigots looking down their noses at folks they wrongly imagine their inferiors.

Sure, the term "art music" should be avoided at any cost.

[Harpo]

I've used "art music" in the past, and the suggestion that the phrase is irredeemably pretentious fills me with a nameless fear. 

--------------------------

Can you name that fear in three notes or less??   

"Art music" is probably a more accurate term than "classical," but I guess I'll stick with the misleading vernacular.

Perhaps any kind of music can be called "art," since it is created, played on instruments, etc.   Contemporary pop music is played in my gym.      Having cut my teeth on classical (well, you know what I mean), Baby Boomer rock and Broadway,  I don't know what to call that genre (except nasty names), but they call all those performers "artists" too. 

I'm a secret elitist, too. Maybe this board will be fun.

[karlhenning]

I've used "art music" in the past, and the suggestion that the phrase is irredeemably pretentious fills me with a nameless fear.

Can you name that fear in three notes or less??   

Maybe the first three oboe notes in the last movement of the Shostakovich Fourth . . . .