Elderly Finnish conductor p*sses off wimmin conductors & their enablers.

[jochanaan]

Alsop is definitely well known and conducts a lot of concerts, but among the general classical music listening public she's probably more than a bit underrated. It's not easy to overcome the disadvantages of being (a) alive and (b) not from one of the cool European countries.

Just hear her live if you can.  That'll show you how "underrated" she is--which is very.

For "hype" compare...Celibidache...

LOL Now there's an irony!  All the hype about Celibidache has come AFTER his death, since not once did he even go into the studio during his lifetime!  The records issued after his death were made literally behind his back and without his knowledge.  Yet they only confirm, at least to me, that his reputation was well-deserved.

[ibanezmonster]

Really? You're a... feminist> Sooo, you believe women are "better" than men, right? Since, uh, you know, there is no such thing as equality, right? As long as they have all the... excuse me... pussy- there is no equality. Why don't you get that?

I don't think everyone who is a feminist necessarily hates men or thinks they are inferior, but there may be that element to some hardcore feminists. Which is just as wrong as hating women. A woman with this attitude "As long as they have all the... excuse me... pussy- there is no equality." doesn't deserve a man.  Imagine if a man said that about himself lol.

None is the "better," regardless. It takes a tank, damage dealer, and healer to make an effective party. Try slaying dragons if you can't heal yourself.

[Superhorn]

    Looks like Jorma's getting senile in his old age .  Too bad . 

[jochanaan]

By all means do cite Dudamel in a discussion of the second most hyped.

My sister sang in the chorus for Mahler 8 in LA under Dudamel.  She says the hype is more than deserved; in fact, she really doesn't want to sing for any other conductor now.

[kishnevi]

My sister sang in the chorus for Mahler 8 in LA under Dudamel.  She says the hype is more than deserved; in fact, she really doesn't want to sing for any other conductor now.

I was not so impressed with the DVD of that Eighth, but the DVD was made from the Caracas performance, and working under a conductor is obviously quite different from simply listening or viewing the concert.  But he did produce an excellent M9; I think overall it might be among my top four or five recordings of that symphony.   You can find his M2 on YouTube, although I have never listened to more than the opening.  (It seems to be posted only as one long video so you have to watch the whole thing in full or not at all.) I have some less than stellar recordings from him and some good ones, but none of them hit me as failures.  Certain other conductors of great fame can not say that.  (Gergiev,  I am looking at you.  And in fact. Ms. Alsop as well.). For instance I may sound critical of Dudamel's M8 but it is perceptibly better than Chailly's Leipzig M8,  which is also on DVD.)

[Ken B]

My sister sang in the chorus for Mahler 8 in LA under Dudamel.  She says the hype is more than deserved; in fact, she really doesn't want to sing for any other conductor now.

From everything I have listened to, or the rehearsal video I saw, yes it seems entirely justified. He really is special.

[Brian]

I have heard from a lot of people that the excellence of Messrs. Dudamel and Nezet-Seguin is mainly in their skills as charismatic leaders of orchestras. They seem to be men of integrity and modest personalities, "musicianly," but this is a different thing from saying they lead great performances. (As it happens I have seen a really terrific live Dudamel concert - and two stinkers from YNS.)

[jochanaan]

I have heard from a lot of people that the excellence of Messrs. Dudamel and Nezet-Seguin is mainly in their skills as charismatic leaders of orchestras. They seem to be men of integrity and modest personalities, "musicianly," but this is a different thing from saying they lead great performances. (As it happens I have seen a really terrific live Dudamel concert - and two stinkers from YNS.)

Um--what other qualities does a conductor really need?  It's possible to "do everything right" as far as tempos and dynamics and still not lead a great performance.  In fact, I'd rather hear a performance in which every singer and player played and sang their heart out, even if some of the tempos are off.  (Unless they're really off, as in some of the Stokowski recordings! )

[Ken B]

Um--what other qualities does a conductor really need?  It's possible to "do everything right" as far as tempos and dynamics and still not lead a great performance.  In fact, I'd rather hear a performance in which every singer and player played and sang their heart out, even if some of the tempos are off.  (Unless they're really off, as in some of the Stokowski recordings! )

Indeed. The SBYO is not the BPO or the LSO, but I heard him get a Shosty 10th out of them that was first rate. And in rehearsal he's actually quite demanding about details,but in a way the players respond to. The last young conductor I was this impressed with was young Simon Rattle.

[Brian]

Um--what other qualities does a conductor really need?  It's possible to "do everything right" as far as tempos and dynamics and still not lead a great performance.  In fact, I'd rather hear a performance in which every singer and player played and sang their heart out, even if some of the tempos are off.  (Unless they're really off, as in some of the Stokowski recordings! )

Hrm, there must have been a misunderstanding, because I agree with you    It's too early in the morning for my brain to handle this, I'll come back. 

[The new erato]

Reminds me of the old Hendrix classic Love or Confusion.

Or Zeppelin's Communication Breakdown.

[Chosen Barley]

"Is there a womans on this site who isn't totally overcome with the "you go girl" schtick? Is there an old fashioned womans here who gets ridiculed as being a "traitor" or something because she isn't one of these new fangled I-can-do-everyhting-at-once overbearing boors?" 

Me.  I'm embarrassed by the you-go-girl schtick.  But then, I'm an old girl now (middle aged) and I don't give a hoot what feminists of either sex think.  As I see it, men built civilization and women make it worth living in.  Or at least they used to.  Now, they just make a lot of noise and get easy, unnecessary, wellpaid government jobs, displacing men, who are now mostly in the beta category.

It's okay for M. Alsop to be a conductor - an inherently male job - precisely because she is q*u*e*e*r.  It's a hormonal challenge and she rose to it.

[jochanaan]

Hrm, there must have been a misunderstanding, because I agree with you    It's too early in the morning for my brain to handle this, I'll come back. 

No problem.  Not worth starting a flame war over, for sure!

[Brian]

No problem.  Not worth starting a flame war over, for sure!

Certainly not! Especially when other people are saying that conducting is an "inherently male job"... I think I'm gonna go read a book  to avoid joining battle

[jochanaan]

... I think I'm gonna go read a book  to avoid joining battle

I like the way you think!

[Ken B]

Certainly not! Especially when other people are saying that conducting is an "inherently male job"... I think I'm gonna go read a book  to avoid joining battle

Reading a book is an inherently male job.

[amw]

Q: How many anti-feminists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None, we have a long tradition of using our current light bulb, and if it were broken it would have changed itself by now.