When Did Modernism Begin?

[schweitzeralan]

When I was learning and later teaching Spanish American Literature I was informed of the many "isms" that haunted much 20th century poetry, fiction, and theatre.  I always believed that the Modernist tonality that haunted classical music began with the Post Impressionists.  I always believed that Debussy, Ravel, Scriabin,Marx, Griffis, Gliere, and others were sort of Pre-Modernists.  Prokofiev (Sythian Suite), Works by Bartok, Stravinsky began] the "New" 20th century idiom, not unlike poetry, exemplified by many 20th century novelists and poets, such as  Eliot, Faulkner, V. Wolf, Neruda, Kafka the existentialists, et. al.

For many literary critics the Modernist Movement, along with the 20th century, really didn't begin until after WW!; that is, 1914. The more I delved into this thing I sensed that opinions varied. Nomenclatures  seemed to have changed, according to experts and interested listeners alike.  After the Romantic Movement in music, Impressionism then dominated. Then the Modernists. Many composers, however, (including, among others, Joseph Marx), continued to compose intensely romantic music. Now believe that most music theories agree that Modernism began with Debussy.  Some even opined that certain late 19th century composers were quite pre "au courant."

[jochanaan]

Debussy's and Ravel's harmonies were still more-or-less tonal, although some of late Debussy is amazingly indeterminate tonally.  Also their rhythms were not a total break from the past.  So although they anticipated Modernism, they weren't really Modernists.  (Actually, though, I consider Boléro a "proto-minimalist" composition. )  Of the nineteenth-century Modernist precursors, Liszt, of all people, anticipated Modernism most strongly with his Étude sans tonalité and the twelve-note theme from his Faust Symphony.

But I feel we can pinpoint the actual beginnings of musical Modernism to two works: Schoenberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra (1909, first performed in 1912) and Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring (1913).  The Five Pieces were the first orchestral pieces to use full "pan-tonality" (Schoenberg preferred this term to "atonality"), and The Rite of Spring, although not atonal in the formal sense, was the first major work characterized by ever-changing rhythmic meter.

[The Six]

But I feel we can pinpoint the actual beginnings of musical Modernism to two works: Schoenberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra (1909, first performed in 1912) and Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring (1913). 

Charles Koechlin was writing polytonal music with no meter around this time, as well.

[jochanaan]

Charles Koechlin was writing polytonal music with no meter around this time, as well.

Uh, good point. And so was Charles Ives, although nobody to speak of had heard it yet.

[The Six]

Uh, thanks.

[snyprrr]

My smart-aleck answer is Berlioz/Lelio.

[DavidRoss]

When I was learning and later teaching Spanish American Literature I was informed of the many "isms" that haunted much 20th century poetry, fiction, and theatre.  I always believed that the Modernist tonality that haunted classical music began with the Post Impressionists.  I always believed that Debussy, Ravel, Scriabin,Marx, Griffis, Gliere, and others were sort of Pre-Modernists.  Prokofiev (Sythian Suite), Works by Bartok, Stravinsky began] the "New" 20th century idiom, not unlike poetry, exemplified by many 20th century novelists and poets, such as  Eliot, Faulkner, V. Wolf, Neruda, Kafka the existentialists, et. al.

For many literary critics the Modernist Movement, along with the 20th century, really didn't begin until after WW!; that is, 1914. The more I delved into this thing I sensed that opinions varied. Nomenclatures  seemed to have changed, according to experts and interested listeners alike.  After the Romantic Movement in music, Impressionism then dominated. Then the Modernists. Many composers, however, (including, among others, Joseph Marx), continued to compose intensely romantic music. Now believe tat most music theories agree that Modernism began with Debussy.  Some even opined that certain late 19th century composers were quite pre "au courant."

"Modernism" means many things to different people.  Any such discussion ought begin with definition of terms.  You and I both were involved in some previous discussion of this on another thread recently that included a couple of particularly relevant pages starting here.

[Lethevich]

My smart-aleck answer is Berlioz/Lelio.

I had resisted temptation until now, but the floodgates are opened! Ars Nova!

[jochanaan]

I had resisted temptation until now, but the floodgates are opened! Ars Nova!

Those pesky monks who insisted on adding a second part to their plainsong!

[greg]

Why not say Schoenberg's 2nd String Quartet, 3 Piano Pieces, and some of the Book of Hanging Gardens songs is the start of modernism?

[DavidRoss]

Why not say Schoenberg's 2nd String Quartet, 3 Piano Pieces, and some of the Book of Hanging Gardens songs is the start of modernism?

Because that would depend on an extraordinarily narrow definition of modernism which is contrary to established usage.

[greg]

Then that would mean Modernism started at multiple points in time...

[Josquin des Prez]

Because that would depend on an extraordinarily narrow definition of modernism which is contrary to established usage.

What's so narrow about the established usage? 1914 sounds pretty good to me. Notice how the incipience of genius dropped dramatically from that point on.

[Cato]

Modernism depends on technology quite a bit: developments, refinements in the instruments in the early 1800's, especially the brass, allow composers to explore and create more "cutting edge" music: Berlioz is not a bad pick.

Other important starting points for "Modernism" outside of Perotin and the Notre Dame School:

Bach's Well Tempered Clavier , St. Matthew Passion, and The Art of the Fugue.

Mozart's last 5 symphonies.

Beethoven's: Third & Ninth Symphonies.

Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique.

And "of course"...

Wagner: Tristan und Isolde.   0:)

[Guido]

Modernism depends on technology quite a bit: developments, refinements in the instruments in the early 1800's, especially the brass, allow composers to explore and create more "cutting edge" music: Berlioz is not a bad pick.

Other important starting points for "Modernism" outside of Perotin and the Notre Dame School:

Bach's Well Tempered Clavier , St. Matthew Passion, and The Art of the Fugue.

Mozart's last 5 symphonies.

Beethoven's: Third & Ninth Symphonies.

Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique.

And "of course"...

Wagner: Tristan und Isolde.   0:)

Well there's always new stuff to play with, but I think we're talking about Modernism as an idea, the style of music that dominated after romanticism.

Notice how the incipience of genius dropped dramatically from that point on.

And yet music became more beguiling and varied than ever before... 'Genius' was revealed for the small minded bourgeois fantasy that it was: a figment of hebetudinous pseudo-intellectuals' empty minds.

[snyprrr]

hebetudinous

Howbout...ultra super officially...1909-14 and 1920-21.

Once you've got air raid sirens and airplane propellers, you've got modernism!

I simply consider the Second Viennese School an "answer" to Romanticism. True modernism needs airplane propellers and naked cellists.

After the "first wave" of Modernism above, we have the second wave, called High Modernism  which, IMHO, crested between the mid-'70s through early-'90s, with the advent of deaths of the first wave of avant gardists from the post war era. I have personal theories about the years 1967-71, especially 1971... brrr, creeps me out.

The total liberation of playing and sound (Penderecki, Kagel) characterize this second wave.

Honorable mention goes to the year 1951.

By the late-90s, Universal Modernism choked on its own vomit like a bloated rock star. We are now in the High Middle post-Post Modern era, as yet unnamed, in which we slowly come to the realization that all of this might not matter soon.

[schweitzeralan]

Uh, good point. And so was Charles Ives, although nobody to speak of had heard it yet.

They were the the earliest ones.  "Pre-Modernist music still was the "tour de force" which dominated the first two decades of the last century.  Impressionism, late romantic works were still being conceived by "conservative" composers during the 20's and 30's. Neoclassicism then became the dominant rule for success, thanks in part to M. Boulanger.  Much later Postmodernist composers abandoned atonality and serial works, and many  apparently "rediscovered"' or, rather, opted to "return" to tonality.
At least this is what I've been reading About in selected articles published here and there.

[karlhenning]

. . . thanks in part to M. Boulanger.

Oh, but you mean Mlle. Boulanger (or N. Boulanger).

[Josquin des Prez]

And yet music became more beguiling and varied than ever before...

Beguiling only to the simpleton.

'Genius' was revealed for the small minded bourgeois fantasy that it was: a figment of hebetudinous pseudo-intellectuals' empty minds.

This is what small minded pseudo intellectuals actually believe.

[karlhenning]

(Actually, though, I consider Boléro a "proto-minimalist" composition. )

More a Process piece, than a Minimalist piece.