Great symphonies never performed

[cliftwood]

Two magnificent works, Wm. Schuman's Symphony #3  and Hindemith's Symphony in E Flat are very special. The Schuman was programmed by the Philadelphia Orchestra by Muti and that performance is the only one I know of in decades. To my knowledge, the Hindemith was never programmed here.

Do you know these works and can you explain their obscurity?

There are many other examples but these two stand out for me.

[springrite]

First of all, welcome back!

Sheparo's symphony for classical orchestra was performed in the mid-80's by the Los Angeles Phil under new MD Andre Previn. It's a magnificent work and really should be performed more.

[cliftwood]

First of all, welcome back!

Sheparo's symphony for classical orchestra was performed in the mid-80's by the Los Angeles Phil under new MD Andre Previn. It's a magnificent work and really should be performed more.

Thanks, Springrite. Glad to be back.

I don't know the Sheparo work but will be anxious to hear it.

[hornteacher]

Dvorak's 5th gets performed a lot less than it should in my opinion.  Its a well crafted gorgeous work that is overshadowed by his later symphonies.

[jimmosk]

Let me second the recommendation of the Shapero symphony (the Leonard Bernstein recording is tremendous - the snippets at http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Masters-Luigi-Dallapiccola/dp/B00000FCKU don't do it justice).  His Serenade in D is great too, in its quartet or string-orchestra form.

And my fellow Shapero-boosters out there should know that HS is alive, well, and trying to get more of his music performed (of course, what living composer isn't?) -- if you know of any conductors who might be up for performing his works, like that symphony or his recently-completed Trumpet Concerto, I can give you his contact information.

-J

[jochanaan]

Two magnificent works, Wm. Schuman's Symphony #3  and Hindemith's Symphony in E Flat are very special. The Schuman was programmed by the Philadelphia Orchestra by Muti and that performance is the only one I know of in decades. To my knowledge, the Hindemith was never programmed here.

Do you know these works and can you explain their obscurity?

I don't know that particular Schuman symphony, but I do know his Eighth and the Hindemith Eb.  While the Eighth is "advanced listening" and not for the faint-hearted, it is also undeniably beautiful and exciting and needs to be performed more.  And I really canNOT figure out why the Hindemith isn't a concert staple; it's exciting, deeply integrated (that three-note cell that opens every movement) and magnificently orchestrated.

Is there a complete Schuman collection?  I am beginning to think his may be one of the great symphonic legacies from the 20th century, up there with Brian, Hanson, Hovhaness, Shostakovich and Vaughan Williams, but I haven't heard of any cycles...

[Christo]

Quite overwhelmed by last week's discovery of Arnold Cooke's First (1947), and under the spell of his even finer Third (1967) for decades already, I would love to hear the other four.

The same applies to the unheard, unrecorded (apart from his Second and Third, on Lyrita) and hardly ever performed symphonies of William Wordsworth (1908-1988, at least hist Sixth was never performed), another recent discovery, especially his Fifth (1963).

And also to my compatriot Léon Orthel (1905-1985), whose two later symphonies were probably never performed either. So, based on my recent listening experiences, I would crave for recordings or at least performances of:

Arnold Cooke (1906-2005), Symphonies No. 3 (1963), No. 4 (1974), No. 5 (1979) and No. 6 (1984),
William Wordsworth (1908-1988), Symphonies No. 1 (1944), No. 4 (1953), No. 5 (1963), No. 6 (1977), No. 7 1980), No. 8  (1986),
Léon Orthel (1905-1985), Symphonies No. 1 (1933), No. 5 (1960), No. 6 (1961).

(Basically, they all three composers were all gifted neoclassicists at the wrong moment in history, writing some of their fines pieces in the 1950s and 1960s).  

[cliftwood]

I don't know that particular Schuman symphony, but I do know his Eighth and the Hindemith Eb.  While the Eighth is "advanced listening" and not for the faint-hearted, it is also undeniably beautiful and exciting and needs to be performed more.  And I really canNOT figure out why the Hindemith isn't a concert staple; it's exciting, deeply integrated (that three-note cell that opens every movement) and magnificently orchestrated.

Is there a complete Schuman collection?  I am beginning to think his may be one of the great symphonic legacies from the 20th century, up there with Brian, Hanson, Hovhaness, Shostakovich and Vaughan Williams, but I haven't heard of any cycles...

The recording you should have of the Wm.Schuman 3rd is by Bernstein and the NY Philharmonic on Sony from 1963. It's very special.

[Dundonnell]

I don't know that particular Schuman symphony, but I do know his Eighth and the Hindemith Eb.  While the Eighth is "advanced listening" and not for the faint-hearted, it is also undeniably beautiful and exciting and needs to be performed more.  And I really canNOT figure out why the Hindemith isn't a concert staple; it's exciting, deeply integrated (that three-note cell that opens every movement) and magnificently orchestrated.

Is there a complete Schuman collection?  I am beginning to think his may be one of the great symphonic legacies from the 20th century, up there with Brian, Hanson, Hovhaness, Shostakovich and Vaughan Williams, but I haven't heard of any cycles...

You ask whether there is a complete Schuman collection. Well, almost. Gerard Schwarz and the Seattle Symphony Orchestra recorded some of the symphonies on the Delos label and these have now been transferred onto Naxos discs along with some new recordings of other symphonies. The only symphonies not yet issued in the Schwarz cycle are Nos. 6 and 8-some coupling!. I believe that they have been recorded by Schwarz. No.6 is available in recordings by the New Zealand SO(Hugh Keelan)-Koch and by Ormandy and the Philadelphia-mono/Albany; No.8 by the New York Phil under Bernstein from the 1960s on Sony.

[Dundonnell]

Quite overwhelmed by last week's discovery of Arnold Cooke's First (1947), and under the spell of his even finer Third (1967) for decades already, I would love to hear the other four.

The same applies to the unheard, unrecorded (apart from his Second and Third, on Lyrita) and hardly ever performed symphonies of William Wordsworth (1908-1988, at least hist Sixth was never performed), another recent discovery, especially his Fifth (1963).

And also to my compatriot Léon Orthel (1905-1985), whose two later symphonies were probably never performed either. So, based on my recent listening experiences, I would crave for recordings or at least performances of:

Arnold Cooke (1906-2005), Symphonies No. 3 (1963), No. 4 (1974), No. 5 (1979) and No. 6 (1984),
William Wordsworth (1908-1988), Symphonies No. 1 (1944), No. 4 (1953), No. 5 (1963), No. 6 (1977), No. 7 1980), No. 8  (1986),
Léon Orthel (1905-1985), Symphonies No. 1 (1933), No. 5 (1960), No. 6 (1961).

(Basically, they all three composers were all gifted neoclassicists at the wrong moment in history, writing some of their fines pieces in the 1950s and 1960s).  

Well said

[jochanaan]

...No.8 by the New York Phil under Bernstein from the 1960s on Sony.

Yeah, that's the one I have, in a 1970s reissue coupled with Robert Suderburg's Piano Concerto. If I ever get any extra money, I'll definitely check those others out.  Schwartz and the Seattleians, while not as magnetic as Bernstein's NYP, at least play competently, and they've done great service to the 20th century symphonic repertoire.

[ChamberNut]

Dvorak's 5th gets performed a lot less than it should in my opinion.  Its a well crafted gorgeous work that is overshadowed by his later symphonies.

Good mention.  Yes, Dvorak 7th and 8th greatly overshadow symphonies 1 thru 6.  And the 9th greatly overshadows the 7th and 8th.

[ChamberNut]

How about Classical Era symphonies?  When is the last time anyone went to a concert that feature a classical era symphony that wasn't either by Haydn or Mozart? (Including Beethoven in the Romantic Era, although I know he straddles both eras).

[Gabriel]

How about Classical Era symphonies?  When is the last time anyone went to a concert that feature a classical era symphony that wasn't either by Haydn or Mozart? (Including Beethoven in the Romantic Era, although I know he straddles both eras).

Excluding Beethoven and Schubert, I'd say that there is a small possibility, in main concert cities, of attending performances of symphonies by C.P.E. Bach or J.C. Bach, but among the other composers it's quite improbable. It is a great pity. (I'd love, for example, to listen directly to a Sturm und Drang symphony by Vanhal or Cherubini's D major symphony).

[not edward]

Good mention.  Yes, Dvorak 7th and 8th greatly overshadow symphonies 1 thru 6.  And the 9th greatly overshadows the 7th and 8th.

In my world, the 7th overshadows the 9th.

I should return to the 5th some time, though: I really only listen to the 6th and 7th much.

[ChamberNut]

In my world, the 7th overshadows the 9th.

I should return to the 5th some time, though: I really only listen to the 6th and 7th much.

For me Edward, the 8th overshadows them all.  0:)

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

For me Edward, the 8th overshadows them all.  0:)

Ohhhh, didn't know Dvorak #8 (I still have lots to explore) and had a quick listen. Just realized the Adagio is in the LOVELY Ёжик в тумане -- Hedgehog in the fog (at 6:00 ff.) Is the theme e.g. at 8:17 also from Dvorak?