The Classical Chat Thread

[EigenUser]

I found an old score for Messiaen's organ work Meditations sur la Mystere de la Sainte Trinite at this music store for a deal ($20 -- normally about $100). I was enjoying reading through it (both in my head and at the piano), but I am listening to parts of it now and I just don't like the sound of the instrument. It has nothing to do with the notes/content at all -- typical Messiaen, which I love.

Does anyone else just not care for the sound of the organ? Is it considered more "acquired" than other instruments? I'd be particularly interested in hearing from people who do like organ music.

[Florestan]

I started quite abstractly, really.  The two initial drivers were:  First . . . I had been writing quite a bit of music for church, where the music needed both to be of a certain character, and technically within reach of a very modest choir.  So before any consideration else, I wanted to write something fast, something challenging, and for a group of instruments.


Secondly, I wanted a full, brassy sound to the group, but with a generally low center of registral gravity.  With that goal in mind, I dreamt up the group:  six saxophones, two tenor trombones, one bass trombone and tuba.  (That is how I composed the 5-minute exposition originally, although the composition of the ensemble I later changed, swapping clarinets for two of the saxophones.)


I don't remember exactly where in the process I came up with the title;  but I had certainly already composed 2-3 minutes of the piece before I settled on a title.

Very interesting, thanks a lot.

[Florestan]

Evoke is the verb I like to use.  It is beyond sense to say that composers feel no emotion as they write, that performers feel none as they play, or that audiences feel none as they listen.  But whether they are the same emotions is a different question...

Yes.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Does anyone else just not care for the sound of the organ? Is it considered more "acquired" than other instruments? I'd be particularly interested in hearing from people who do like organ music.

I'm not a big fan of organ but there are several cases where this dislike can be used to its advantage. For ex. the ending of act II in Lohengrin, L. and E. are on their way to apparent bliss of marriage, cheesy-sounding organ sound flows in... and that makes the suddenly ensuing Nie sollst du mich befragen-leitmotiv in brass all the more powerful.

[Gurn Blanston]

Does anyone else just not care for the sound of the organ? Is it considered more "acquired" than other instruments? I'd be particularly interested in hearing from people who do like organ music.

I'm not a huge fan of organ music. I don't like those great large organs everyone seems so keen on, with the Phil Spector-ish 'Wall of Sound' thing going. I DO like the little old Austrian organs, which often had only one manual and no pedals. I like the quality of the sound, and the music written to accommodate the limitations of the instrument. It is only one step above chamber music.

[Jo498]

Do you mean the particular organ sound on that Messiaen recording? Or the sound of an organ in general?

[Sergeant Rock]

Does anyone else just not care for the sound of the organ?

Like the harpsichord as a solo instrument, I'm not a fan of the solo organ either. But like the harpsichord, I rather enjoy the organ when it's part of an instrumental group (60s rock songs like Light My Fire, Chest Fever, 96 Tears, A Whiter Shade of Pale, Hush, She's About a Mover) or orchestral work (Saint-Saens Third Symphony, Elgar 2).

Sarge

[Wanderer]

I found an old score for Messiaen's organ work Meditations sur la Mystere de la Sainte Trinite at this music store for a deal ($20 -- normally about $100). I was enjoying reading through it (both in my head and at the piano), but I am listening to parts of it now and I just don't like the sound of the instrument. It has nothing to do with the notes/content at all -- typical Messiaen, which I love.

Does anyone else just not care for the sound of the organ? Is it considered more "acquired" than other instruments? I'd be particularly interested in hearing from people who do like organ music.

I'm very fond of organ music and the sound of the organ in general, but there are a number of variables: some instruments are better than others, some works are better than others, some recordings are better than others and the quality of one's listening equipment also comes heavily into play.

[jochanaan]

I love the organ; always have.  Pipe organs are the best!  And I've come to enjoy the Hammond B3 as used in jazz or gospel.

Few recordings really do a big pipe organ justice; it's kind of like trying to take a photograph of Michelangelo's David.  When you're in the presence of a good pipe organ, you can really feel the sound.  There is a recording of E. Power Biggs playing the then-new Baroque organ in the Leipzig Thomaskirche, made in the 1970s when Leipzig was still part of Communist East Germany, and it is as good an organ recording as I've heard; you can hear the cathedral space as well as the organ sound itself.

[Brian]

My mom definitely hates the sound of the church/pipe organ.

For me a full-size organ is a sometimes thing. I love it in an orchestra; I always love hearing organs live because jochanaan is right, there's nothing else that compares. On recordings, if it's the only instrument, I can enjoy it for 20-30 minutes but not an extended listening session. I feel the same way about the guitar (but not the lute or oud).

[Jo498]

I am not a great fan of the organ (Stravinsky supposedly said: "The monster never breathes", it tends to overwhelm) but I listen to Bach because the music is so good. (I like smallish organs used in some recordings of Handel's concerti and Bach's less massive pieces like the trio sonatas which are my favs anyway.)

I rather like the harpsichord. I rather dislike guitar, harp and similar plucked instruments (but maybe mainly because I consider most of the music typically played on them fluff)

[Wanderer]

I love the organ; always have.  Pipe organs are the best!

Few recordings really do a big pipe organ justice; it's kind of like trying to take a photograph of Michelangelo's David.  When you're in the presence of a good pipe organ, you can really feel the sound.

Indeed. I'll never forget the first time I heard (and felt) the mighty organ in its natural habitat: it was 1995 (or 1996) in Esztergom Cathedral, Hungary, and it was simply breathtaking.

Another great instance was when visiting La Madeleine in Paris; there was going to be an organ recital that afternoon and the organist (can't remember his name) was rehearsing something majestic while we were making our rounds around the church. I almost ditched the others to stay till the end.

[Ken B]

Dear Brilliant Classics

You guys do great work here's some things you might want to consider

Deserving a big box
B Martnu -- pure gold here guys
J Hummel -- so much good stuff from Haydn's chosen successor, and one of Beethoven's great pianist rivals
Gay American Composers -- excluding Copland, Bernstein

deserving at least a medium sized box
Takemitsu
Obrecht
Nino Rota
Spohr
Frank Martin
Taneyev

[North Star]

Dear Brilliant Classics

You guys do great work here's some things you might want to consider

Deserving a big box
B Martnu -- pure gold here guys

deserving at least a medium sized box
Takemitsu

Yes!

[EigenUser]

It might be an acquired taste.  I know I hated it at first, due to being forced into attending organ recitals at music school.  Way too much Reger.      But now I enjoy it quite a bit.  Jennifer Bate, I think, does a good job with Messiaen, and Meditations sur la Mystere de la Sainte Trinite in particular.

Noted. I'll see if it is on Spotify.

I am not a great fan of the organ (Stravinsky supposedly said: "The monster never breathes", it tends to overwhelm) but I listen to Bach because the music is so good. (I like smallish organs used in some recordings of Handel's concerti and Bach's less massive pieces like the trio sonatas which are my favs anyway.)

I rather like the harpsichord. I rather dislike guitar, harp and similar plucked instruments (but maybe mainly because I consider most of the music typically played on them fluff)

I guess I feel the whey Stravinsky does. It does sound overwhelming. I'll keep trying, though.

Yes!

I thought that you hated Takemitsu!

You know who needs a really big box set? Morton Feldman.

(You still need to hear Coptic Light, Ken! I haven't forgotten! )

[North Star]

I thought that you hated Takemitsu!

No, I like Takemitsu. I have no idea why you thought otherwise.

You know who needs a really big box set? Morton Feldman.

Yes!

[Ken B]

You know who needs a really big box set? Morton Feldman.

A complete recording of that string quartet you mean?

(You still need to hear Coptic Light, Ken! I haven't forgotten! )

Yes, I know ...

[jlaurson]

Fresh from Forbes:



MAY 29, 2015 @ 3:01 PM
Boxing Classical Music: Ferenc Fricsay on Deutsche Grammophon

There's something wonderful about classical music—certainly in its form as recorded music—having
become a commodity: It is more easily available than ever before, in greater variety than ever before,
and at a lower cost than ever before. Notable part of this trend is the packaging and re-packaging and
re-releasing of trusty records as part of box sets. Everything by everyone seems available affordably—
and we are talking about the physical product, not downloads, which you might think would spearhead
this development... perhaps even at the expense of the trusty CD.

Box sets used to be expensive, much cherished trophies of the collector. I remember my first set of
complete Beethoven Sonatas (incidentally not a particularly satisfying set, as it would eventually turn
out) and my first Ring Cycle (still a worthy member of the collection) and the hushed reverence that
went along with their purchase. With the tumbling of prices, that's changed entirely (furthered by the
budgetary constraints that are not those of one's student days). There are still some box sets that are
expensive, made with great care, and easy to covet. But more-so it has become a trend for labels to
use sets to manufacture bargain-basement collections that can be had for a few bucks per disc and
entice listeners to fill gaps in their collections they might not otherwise have had bothered or bee able
to fill....

[Pat B]

Nice article, Jens. I agree with you about Fricsay, and yet, there is now such an overwhelming array of choices that I almost missed him entirely (and many people probably did). Keep beating that drum!

[Brian]

Obrecht

Who is Obrecht? I have never heard of him/her.