Islamic-Christian misogyny & sexual repression

[Todd]

Todd, yes she was a bit young and I didn't stay with her for long. I was 35 I think, now just gone 40. I was with her for about 12 days- went travelling.

Interesting, you don't fancy young people, yet at age 35 your "girlfriend" of 12 whole days was a 21 year old.  Well, you say she was 21.  Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't.  (To be honest, I don't find you honest in the least.)  You're obviously a bit confused about what constitutes younger people. 

I find several things interesting about you.  First, you are stuck in adolescence.  A particularly perverted form of adolescence.  Second, you babble on about sexual ideas and something about various cultures being more open, or whatever, when you demonstrate no understanding of the subjects you write about.  Being a sexual tourist exploiting youngsters in other countries does not provide any cultural knowledge of any kind.  Third, you are very obviously a misogynist despite your assertion to the contrary; you seem to specialize in finding ladyfriends in cultures where women are still suppressed and you can easily buy companionship.  That speaks volumes.

Truth be told, I've never read one of your entire long posts.  They're complete and total garbage.  I picked that up in one of your earliest posts, which was related to the same tired topics you still carry on about today.  I just couldn't read the whole thing – the ick factor was too high.  Keep in mind that I can handle the raunchiest stuff I've seen with ease.  You see, unless you are joking, which I hope you are, your serious approach to depravity defines you as a sick, twisted individual. 

Rather than being enlightened, or supremely self-assured, or whatever it is you claim you are, you are a grotesque middle-aged man who can't find a woman who can actually stomach you without having to pay her.  And to top it all off, you're a conspiracy theorist – and like all conspiracy theorists, more than a little dim.  Surely there are web-sites more in tune with your ideas.  Perhaps you should spend more time on those sites.

Perhaps this is a harsh post, but given that you are deeper than the ocean and higher than the mountains, I figured you could handle it.

[The new erato]

Perhaps this is a harsh post, but given that you are deeper than the ocean and higher than the mountains, I figured you could handle it.

Given that Sean finds it an acheivement to send other people reeling to the other side of the room from something brilliantly obnoxious he's said, I guess that he just loves the straight shooting in your post.

[Elgarian]

she was a good girlfriend.

I say again: I think she must have been, indeed, judging from her willingness to grant permission for you to post her photographs in this thread, in this context.

[Sean]

Todd, like DavidRoss you are being little self-defeating by typing all that stuff you know: if I'm to be disregarded, disregard me, don't get wound up thinking why you got married, have the latest car on the drive, work in some brick in the wall regular job, and developed such dull views as provided by society. Anyway thanks for describing me as sick and twisted- all very revealing...

Let's quit this thread...

[Sean]

[Todd]

Let's quit this thread...

I have a better idea for you specifically: why don't you quit the forum?  Or at least post your misogynistic, perverted, grotesque, ignorant trash on the appropriate forums.

[knight66]

I recall some lurid descriptions of nightlife where orientals seemingly lampooned Western religion by turning the rites into a sex show. You were very congratulatory about that one Sean.

A couple of masterpieces from Sean's back catalogue on the old site.

Just like Todd says really.


There is this....

http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php?action=search2

Then this, almost at random and I am sure there was lots more of the same, but describing encounters a bit more closely. Some of the choisest we binned, so they are beyond retrieval.



Thai nightlife

Thai culture's approach to the emotional and sensual has many differences to the West's, especially in its English-speaking countries, and initial examples of culture shock include the views down Walking Street in Pattaya or Sukhumvit soi 4 in Bangkok and their rich flux of people and possibilities, complemented by the luxuriously hot and sultry climate. There's a continuity with ordinary life that leaves them mystified as to what your inhibitions can possibly be: unhappiness and repression exists in the bars and nightclubs of the West rather than beyond it- young people struggle badly to meet each other, even to make any friends at all, in their alienated, fragmented materialistic environment; their society gives little idea about how their emotional life is supposed to work, indeed is antithetical to it, and the numbers of stressed, dejected faces in the Western nightclub is sickening, the whole situation for them abusive.

Western thought is articulated and compartmentalized whereas much older Asian thought is holistic and understated, with cultivation of the individual built into the social structure; many cultures have an unbounded character, with for instance even words, buildings and shops blended into each other. Western socialization by contrast brings the naivety of foregrounded ideas, self-consciousness, immaturity and a lack of confidence that feeds on its own cloistered lies about the world- in England it's really hard even to feel an adult at all. Walking past the park by the Emporium on Sukhumvit you may see dignified groups practicing tai chi while others fly kites: in British parks you see antagonistic skate-boarding, strong larger, obscene language, resentment and fear. And once up above soi 4 was a giant hoarding of a beautiful woman looking concerned with a man kissing the side of her face and smiling reassuringly, underneath reading 'The power of gentleness'- romance doesn't occupy such a place in the West.

Western norms define only themselves and are thus antagonistic towards all others, whereas those of Asian cultures typically have the civilized quality of compatibility: they're more abstract and less conceptual, more intuitive than discursive or intellectual and more accommodating of Dionysian thought- rather than Apollonian rationale and its accompanying fear that it isn't fundamental. Toleration is fundamental to Buddhism and similarly Hindu temples may have not only Shiva or Vishnu images but side alters to the Virgin Mary or Mohammed for instance- both emphasize the existence of different paths to enlightenment and are central expressions of holistic Asian thought. Cultural norms and religion are beyond rational account and fundamental to one's outlook: the Thai Buddhist background and its emphasis on what is not is inherently non-confrontational, embracing all possibilities and reflecting intuitive interconnection; by contrast, the absence of non-Christian images in churches reflects the prominence of restrictive, arbitrary dogma and principles, and closed systems of thought.

Western Christianity's gross denial of sexuality, integral to its offensive concept of suffering at the basis of life, contrasts with Asian images of mortals having sex with God and complex phallic and erotic imagery found in temples and routinely throughout society. In the Western medieval there was better understanding of the links between sex and the spiritual but modernity's rationality and overwhelming shift to articulated thought has hindered the awareness of God and the unity integral to our relationship with the world. An instance of the lack of disjunction between Thai religion and sexuality are the Buddha alters, with candles and incense burning, found in or around pick-up bars or parlours, which all wai to as they pass; everywhere retains a sense of quiet, the whole beneath the surface, providing a harmony free of confused principles or simplistic, fixed conceptualisation about life: everything is possible, because everything in life really is.

Articulated thought in Asian cultures is confounded and split up, making concentration in the usual Western sense quite difficult: in the Thai language for instance vowels keep cutting in, defying the articulating consonants- the very sound is open and light, not seeking arbitrary closure and the castles in the sky of lost mental processes. Likewise there are constant obstacles on pavements blocking route and vision, skytrain stations obscuring views down the road and eye level machinery at supermarket checkouts once again bouncing the attention back, hinting at interconnection rather than things themselves: it brings a mature non-specific focus and sophistication. As with all non-Western countries Thailand has an unreality about it, a fundamental disbelief in material life- the signs and lights of businesses for example don't quite look like they mean it and everywhere there's a slightly carefree attitude, reflecting Buddhist doctrines of changeability and impermanence rather than attachment to the ever-changing material world.

Thai culture normalizes sexuality in its fullness and boundlessness, endowing life with tremendous energy and vigour: the scope and range of possibility embraced suggests even it's a country of the future, with huge potential and a durable base for massive development. It's an open and limitlessness culture with a sheer power and compass of thought; there's complete unselfconsciousness and lack of opprobrium in for instance Pattaya's naked dancers, high quality erotic shows with their wide range of costumes and routines, and the availability of genuine relationships with fabulously beautiful girls.

It's something many Westerners have difficulty handling, and their response is sometimes to make a fool of themselves in the bars: against all manners they'll dance on the stage with the girls or be obscene, all with confusion and helplessness on their face; also revealing are the men filling Pattaya nightclubs, getting drunk and completely wasting their time, when there are beautiful girls to meet across the street in the bars- bargirls routinely see Westerners as crazy. Despite sex being central to life and well-being, in their countries it's continuous with disgrace and disapproval.

Happy hours at bars can be popular with Western expatriates: the rowdiness, badmouthing and fights that break out, aggravated by an underlying fear of and hence contempt for the culture they're in, particularly from the English, is shocking: the Thais with their understatement and grace are horrified and it only highlights the differing levels of civilization. Also instead of all speaking quietly as the Thais do, so each can hear their own conversations undisturbed, their unbelievable attitude is for each to shout above the rest: they simply bring their culture with them and want desperately to think it's superior- it's the mindlessness of savages and hooligans and an atmosphere of antagonism and violence lying just below the surface. They'll even stare in jealousy and hatred at you, all as in England, a pathetic strategy inviting a fight, because you're talking to your girl and her friends at the next table- and this may be in Nana Plaza where there's thousands of girls to talk to, yet they're so spineless and ineffectual they haven't got it in them to charm any one of them.

Once you know them, girls talk with openness about sex- the giving of oneself in sex is much less a barrier since its unity with life is maintained at a high level: sexual matters that come up in conversation that in the West would be deeply problematic are considered and dismissed easily; many girls also are excellent in bed and know what they like. There's much to gain and always the girls look for long term relationships- it's a place to meet a few girls and then marry one. Few places offer such opportunity and scope for self-improvement: the sense of maturity, authority and freedom here underlines just how infantile and pathetic a place like England is- it's hard to believe such a backward little place could exist even on the same planet.

The shows and bars, especially those attracting the most beautiful girls, are enormously sophisticated, embracing the rich complexity of personal relations and their requirements and possibilities. The men look to the girls and their power and choice- many girls are tremendously confident, accomplished, super-cool, observant and with anyone's movements and expressions counting, real on-edge stuff; they're in touch with their sexuality yet imperturbably demure. Likewise in the well-prepared shows, especially Angelwitch and previously Polo, they take great satisfaction in sexual expression and being watched and admired, really into it, writhing on beds and using all kinds of gear: it all takes place behind a thick intoxicating gauze, providing some of the most important culture shock in the world.

You can watch them deciding who to talk to and who're the more attractive propositions as providers and protectors: they're under no obligation to go with anyone and will make their excuses if there's anything about you they don't like or you make mistakes. You need to be really with it and once agree to leave with you, expect you to be their boyfriend- always take her to a good restaurant, other bars or pool hall, and avoid short-time, it's crude; take name and email cards for special girls. One of the best things you can then do for her, or a massage girl, of course is to see her a second time- this makes her feel justified and is of much importance for her standing in others' eyes.

Thailand is a great place to be a girl, they're put on pedestals like nowhere else and everywhere dress in beautiful sexy clothes- it's a feminised culture, poised, delicate and watchful, the language soft and rounded and thought holistic rather than linear. The girls are a phenomenon: I've visited over 60 countries and here has the highest proportions of beautiful and extremely beautiful women; for the most part I'd far rather go with a Thai than Western girl- their personalities are endowed with a lift and sophistication that is totally disarming and feminine.

There's very little prostitution here. The relations between people aren't broken down into arbitrary categories but instead subtly blend with each other, which of course is their natural quality. If you treat a girl well you'll be treated likewise, this being the only reason the scene works so well; every woman looks for a man who's sorted and got ahead in the world, with the money to look after her, and it's important she takes some regardless how well you know her- especially if you're from a developed economy. She's unlikely to count it or even look at it, or not take it graciously though: the affluent man is also more attractive- wear a good shirt, trousers, shoes and expensive watch, and book into a comfortable mid-range hotel; a good physique will add a lot to your credentials.

The Thais are immediately talkative, readily having conversations and intelligently flirtatious. To go to a bar and talk and play games with someone, them responding in a human way to seeing you alone and being pleased to meet you, is such a contrast to the reserved and bitching, frightened attitudes at an English bar, everyone too afraid to say a thing. The hostility, snootiness and whatever sick and ludicrous barriers there are between them shows how far they've lost their very humanity, regarding such socializing as too forward or at best a curious novelty- life a novelty. I can't underline enough how gross and offensive their normative background is; people go to the same bar for 20 years, notice each other there over all that time, never exchange a single word and think that's normal: coming from such psychosis and perversion the impact of these places can be life-changing.

The Thais talk very quietly with others around, showing respect for their presence; on the subway or skytrain mobile phones are used sparingly, usually with a hand to cover the mouth or moving to a wall, acknowledging the interference that may be caused. Westerners, using not just phones but all manner of ridiculous equipment attached to their heads, think how clever and important they are discussing at volume their work, life or whatever rubbish; the English language even spoken quietly sounds like the speakers are having to try hard, whereas Thai naturally sounds discreet and calm. Moreover there is more good fresh food, and the 7-11 shops sell very little chocolate and only in small sizes, not the huge arrays of juvenile indulgence: the West's high proportions of obese people reflects its greed and consumption of a large majority of the world's resources.

There are guards positioned at skytrain and underground stations, and also even in subway walkways- everything's civilized, safe and upstanding with no chance for drunks or creeps to invade: no confused ideas about thugs' rights are entertained or shocking conduct excused as individuality. Hualampong station is a good example of the quiet simmering intelligence, contrasting with the scattering of Westerners there with their silly clothes and aggressive stance, trying hard to be positive, in a culture already providing the assurance and clarity they're looking for. There are also orderly procedures on the trains, with more movement than necessary around being discouraged, people vacating bunks themselves in the morning well in time for bedding to be cleared, and designated guards looking after each carriage.

However the world generally is losing much with the recent postmodern developments and all cultures have been slightly bevelled, perhaps not in underlying ways but at least superficially. With Western influence Thailand isn't quite as powerful or exciting an experience as it was in the mid '90s- even the music is less cheerful, melody obliterated by driving rhythms as materialism obliterates other life concerns in the West.



I quoted in full, it tells us so much about you, as against the local attitudes, which are seen through a distorted prism.

As is usual, you do fine at GMG until you post about such issues, then a lot of members give you a good spanking, then you disappear for ages, then you come back, are welcomed, post about music, then you get into this crap, then posters spank you, then you go off....and so on...and on. Notice the pattern?

I seem to recall saying to you once that I would not leave you alone in a room with my mother, or the cat...add the goldfish now.

Mike

[Sean]

I've slightly revised that little essay since, but it can rest. I do get disaffected with the internet though- not just this forum. At least you mods are the tolerant sort though...

[71 dB]

Four pages of complete nonsense... 

I have spend time on Tangerine Dream forum. That is a friendly place! Nobody says anything negative about anyone else. People respect each other over there. It doesn't matter if you like or dislike a certain release. You are respected anyway. Tangerine Dream's music seems to give people happiness and peace of mind. I wonder what is wrong with classical music since we fight so much over here... ...frankly I am tired of that. Damn, if someone wants early baroque on piano, why not let him/her have it? Classical music fans can be so damn serious and elitist!

[DavidW]

There wasn't any fighting on the baroque piano thread 71 dB.

If you consider contrasting opinions and debates as the same as fighting, then I'll take the fighting. 0:)

[DavidRoss]

Four pages of complete nonsense... 

I have spend time on Tangerine Dream forum. That is a friendly place! Nobody says anything negative about anyone else. People respect each other over there. It doesn't matter if you like or dislike a certain release. You are respected anyway. Tangerine Dream's music seems to give people happiness and peace of mind. I wonder what is wrong with classical music since we fight so much over here... ...frankly I am tired of that. Damn, if someone wants early baroque on piano, why not let him/her have it? Classical music fans can be so damn serious and elitist!

Poju, you are on a thread about sexual deviance started by a vacuous troll and intended to offend as many people as possible.  It has nothing to do with classical music.

Tell you what:  Go to your tangerine dream site and start posting reams of drivel slandering peoples' cultural and moral values and advocating exploitation of third world sex slaves and see what happens.

[Florestan]

Cutting the wrapping crap, we get to the core of the matter:

[...]high quality erotic shows with their wide range of costumes and routines, and the availability of genuine relationships with fabulously beautiful girls[..].

[...]many girls also are excellent in bed and know what they like[...]

[...]in the well-prepared shows, especially Angelwitch and previously Polo, they take great satisfaction in sexual expression and being watched and admired, really into it, writhing on beds and using all kinds of gear[...]

[...]once agree to leave with you, expect you to be their boyfriend- always take her to a good restaurant, other bars or pool hall, and avoid short-time, it's crude; take name and email cards for special girls. One of the best things you can then do for her, or a massage girl, of course is to see her a second time- this makes her feel justified and is of much importance for her standing in others' eyes[...]

Finally, pour la bonne bouche, this gem:

There's very little prostitution here.

[The new erato]

What's especially wrong with this thread is not the prostitution thing (not that I approve, but it's unfortunately not exactly uncommon), but a guy bragging about his inability to have normal relationships and deluding himself that the girls he buys are his "girlfriends". And trying to rationalize by writing long, pseudophilosophic, empty and delusional posts about it. That's really sickening and makes me want to puke. Get some therapy, Sean.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Damn, if someone wants early baroque on piano, why not let him/her have it? Classical music fans can be so damn serious and elitist!

Yeah!!! 

Good to see someone's got his priorities straight!! 

[Sean]

What's especially wrong with this thread is not the prostitution thing (not that I approve, but it's unfortunately not exactly uncommon), but a guy bragging about his inability to have normal relationships and deluding himself that the girls he buys are his "girlfriends". And trying to rationalize by writing long, pseudophilosophic, empty and delusional posts about it. That's really sickening and makes me want to puke. Get some therapy, Sean.

I think you lot want to talk about all this a lot more than I do on this thread.

[knight66]

WRONG

[david johnson]

i believe the essay means that most western girls have better taste in men than those asians he's been with.

dj

[zamyrabyrd]

I don't know if this thread is supposed to be serious or not but if some readers want an alternative opinion to the alleged sexual repression of women and sexuality by Christianity that one hears time and again, I can give a brief alternate point of view from the other side.

Women's rights are relatively new in modern society. The right to vote for them is less than a hundred years old, to be considered as equal in professions and get the same pay scale, to inherit property, not to be chattel and babymachines and also not to have to "stand in place" of another female (which is the translation of "pro-stare") due to a host of unpleasant reasons--all of these rights still not universal--are thanks to a gradual process STARTED by Christianity that raised the status of women.

Putting women on a pedestal as in the lays of "courtly love" of the Middle Ages were very much related to the veneration of Mary. What were seen as womanly virtues--chastity, modesty, delicacy, nurturance, etc. GO ALL THE WAY BACK THERE. This is RESPECT that if lost due to utterly crazed notions of absolute equality, we may never get it back again, or may take a few more social revolutions.  

One fact frequently overlooked is the role played by labor saving inventions. The mindnumbing work of women, servants and slaves could be performed by machines instead. This enabled more than anything else, the ability to work outside the house.

As for the alleged utopia of a libertine's paradise in Thailand, they have extremely high rates of AIDS and orphaned children, who if they survive, don't have much choice than to re-enter the sex mills that got them there in the first place.

I would wager that any abovementioned Thai or any other nationality would prefer respect. As Eliza Dolittle said "a lady is a lady because she is treated like one".

ZB

[Sean]

Nice to see the tone raised zamyrabyrd, though I basically disagree with you. Christianity is a blatantly patriarchal institution with grotesquely shifted notions of sensuality. Go into a church and you find the shocking centrepiece image of a man being tortured to death and to the side a virgin looking so pure and sweet- how did such revulsion become a world religion?

Horrific death is good whereas sex is bad- what sickos: Christianity puts death at the centre of life and negates emotional maturity; Christ was supposed to be another virgin, though of course he wasn't. And we certainly don't need a role model like the twisted idea of Mary's virtue to respect women. However you do seem to understand about equality between the sexes not being based on sameness or symmetry.

As is well documented, Christianity is just an interpretation of the Dionysian cult of the ancients, the interest in the crucifixion being the legitimate delight in torturing some other bastard to death, up in the air to be mocked and waved at. Indeed the image on the outside of a church is often surrounded by the dead in the graveyard all around- very exciting of course.

The crucifix provides a aesthetic pleasure in another's suffering, denied but still completely out of balance for any sensible guide to life.

[Todd]

Nice to see the tone raised zamyrabyrd

Yes, it was nice, but then you come along again.  What a shame.