Beethoven's Late Piano Sonatas... Who Reigns Supreme?

[sam adams]

OK, I know Beethoven's piano sonatas hardly ever come up on these forums , but with all the recent talk about the best complete cycles as well as who does a particular sonata the best; I would like to hear everyone's opinion on who is supreme OVERALL on the final five.

I have the following sets (part of a complete 32 cycle or stand alone late sonatas)

A Fischer
Gulda (Amadeo)
Rosen
Schnabel
Kempff (Mono)
Backhaus (Stereo)
Solomon
Pollini
Arrau (60's)
Frank

I don't think I have spent enough quality time with my recordings to form my own opinion as of yet, but as I stated above would love to hear your opinions (maybe supported with some descriptive reasoning and comparison from a few words all the way up to Todd-like examinations).

Any and all input will be welcome as these sonata threads are some of my favorite reading in the entire interweb kingdom.

[Josquin des Prez]

Edwin Fischer > all of the above.

[Todd]

Edwin Fischer > all of the above.

False.

No one reigns supreme in late Beethoven, and no one can, but for me some names pop up repeatedly.  Annie Fischer, Pollini, Silverman, Serkin, Kempff.  I can't choose one so I say all.

Here's my list of my favorites from a prior thread:

101 – Schnabel, Kovacevich, Kempff, Barenboim III, Lipkin
106 – Pollini, Serkin, Fischer, Gulda, Frank
109 - Serkin, Gieseking (EMI), Brendel II, Kempff, Horszowski
110 - Gieseking (EMI), Fischer, Kempff, Silverman (Orpheum), Levinas
111 – Pollini, Serkin, Fischer, Sheppard, Silverman (Orpheum)

[Holden]

...and to add my individual favourites

Op 101 Kovacevich - have to agree with Todd here

Op 106 - I really like Sokolov's live recording from Amsterdam after that it's Solomon for me

Op 109 - Richter's live recording from Leipzig takes my fancy here.

Op 110 - Myra Hess, Ernst Levy, Bruce Hungerford

Op 111 - Arrau, on DVD from a 1960 televised recording

I've heard a lot of people espouse the virtues of the Pollini 2CD recording of the last 5 but have never listened to it myself.

[Air]

Brendel II

Which one is that?

[Todd]

Which one is that?

His second cycle, for Philips, from the '70s.

[George]

My picks for the late sonatas (first pick on the left, second pick is second, etc., ties are indicated by a forward slash, Fischer=Annie Fischer):

Op 90 – Fischer – Barenboim/Kempff(m)/Gilels,  Gulda,  Richter, Backhaus, Yudina

Op 101 – Fischer – Kempff(st), Pollini, Yudina, Goode, Gilels, Barenboim  

"Hammerklavier"  Pollini – Gulda, Fischer, Solomon, Serkin, Yudina, Barenboim, Nat, Backhaus, Kempff(m), Gilels

Op 109 – Fischer/Pollini/Serkin(m) – Gulda, Schnabel, Barenboim, Richter, Backhaus, Serkin(st), Gilels, Goode, Nat, Kempff(m), Ciccolini

Op 110 – Serkin(st,1960) - Fischer/Kempff(st)/Gilels/Roberts , Pollini,  Nat, Schnabel,  Barenboim,  Richter,  Backhaus, Hungerford

Op 111 – Yudina(studio) - Fischer/Kempff(st)/Gulda,  Pollini/Barenboim/Richter/Schnabel/Serkin(st), Nat, Backhaus, Hungerford

[Mandryka]

How odd music is -- I think all the posts above have got it completely wrong:


I exclude Richter's Leipzig Concert just to make it more interesting -- If you want to include it just add Richter to 109 through 111.

101 -- Brendel (live) -- this CD, called something like "Live and Radio Broadcasts" has given me an immense amount of pleasure

The Hammer -- Gould. This is my favourite Beethoven piano CD. In my opinion Gould understands and communicates Beethovens gestures better than anyone else I have heard.

109 -- Arrau (middle studio -- the Philips set). He comes alight, dramatic, intense, in that distinctive Arrau way he can sometimes pull off.

110 -- Fiorentino (German concert) ; Gould in Stockholm. The Fiorentino is virtuosic -- you feel a bit shocked by the sharpness of the pianism. The Gould is unbelievably intense.

111 -- Schnabel -- I was imprinted on this so I lose all my judgement when I listen to it. I have also been enjoying Pletnev 's Carnegie Hall performance recently. I can't stop myself from including Levy too -- it's a bit special. But truth is Levy is a bit to much of an oddball for me, even though I can see the performance is exceptional. He reminds me of Nyiregyhazi.

I can't stop myself adding (because I'm enjoying myself):

Opus 126 Bagatelles -- Gould  --  second favourite Beethoven CD. I must have listened to them more than 100 times, but the way the music flows and swings,and the joyfulness of his pianism still makes me gasp.

Diabelli Variations -- Brendel (live)  I just love this one -- on that  "Live and Radio Broadcasts" CD with his Opus 101 This set of Diabellies show more emotional range than any other I have heard -- it spans the spectrum from the grotesque to the sublime. Arrau 's 1950s performance is also very good -- the price of that CD is more than justified by the quality of that Fugue towards the end. Arrau's first interpretation has integrity, passion and drama.

[admiralackbar74]

I still like Pollini in these works, but I haven't paid as much attention to them as I should. Two others I've heard lots about: Kempff's stereo (available as a DG 2CD) and Eschenbach (available as an EMI Gemini 2CD). Thoughts on those from anyone here?

[Drasko]

op.109  Richter (Leipzig)
op.110  Freire, Edwin Fischer
op.111  Michelangeli, Arrau (video)

[sam adams]

Aw..man...most of you guys are taking the easy way out . Cherry picking different artists for each sonata. I've seen most of you on here say who your favorite is for the 32. Reducing that number to 5 should not stop you.

Pretend your house is on fire, the flames are lapping at your heels and you do not have time to grab your 4 or 5 separate CD's of the late sonatas. (You also did not burn them to a single cd )Which SET are your going to grab(part of a 32 set are ok as well). I'll make an exception for artists that never released them together but recorded the five separately over their career. If you want I'll also allow artists that made 4 out of the five (Gilels..etc).

Even though I said I was not prepared to state a favorite...in the spirit of my request I will go with Annie Fischer (with the understanding that I can recant at a latter date).

[George]

Aw..man...most of you guys are taking the easy way out . Cherry picking different artists for each sonata. I've seen most of you on here say who your favorite is for the 32. Reducing that number to 5 should not stop you.

Pretend your house is on fire, the flames are lapping at your heels and you do not have time to grab your 4 or 5 separate CD's of the late sonatas. (You also did not burn them to a single cd )Which SET are your going to grab(part of a 32 set are ok as well). I'll make an exception for artists that never released them together but recorded the five separately over their career.

Still say Annie Fischer but since you already have her:

Rudolf Serkin (mono where available, stereo for the rest)

or Kempff (stereo) for even better contrast   

[Mandryka]

Can't chose one  -- have to have two.  Arrau -- no hesitation. And Heidsieck

The stereo Arrau one that everyone knows from Philips -- the more I listen to him the more I like him From the late sonatas I even like his Hammerklavia -- more ubderstaed than Fischer; less oddball than Schnabel and Guilda -- there's something very satisfying and right about it.

And Heidsieck has a light touch and a poetic creativity which I never tire of. Again -- the more I listen the more I like.

Re some others I know:

Schnabel's good in parts but the sound is not good enough.

Annie Fischer I need to live with for longer -- I only recently acquired the set and my impression so far is that although she's passionate and always exciting the interpretations don't haunt me somehow. They don't reverberate in the mind after the performance.

Guilda -- good, but he never seems to burn with intensity and drama like Arrau often does in that set.

Kempff -- boring I'm afraid, IMO.

Backhauss -- the most overrated pianist ever. Four square and ham fisted, even in the famous ones like OP 110. I don't like nearly every post war record of his I have heard (pre war -- different story)

Kuerti -- Again I have not lived with it for long enough -- but some of what I have heard is excellent -- but mostly not the late ones.

Lucchesini -- don't like the quality of the recorded sound. Don't see anything to rave about in the performances either.

Gillels -- yeah well. I guess I am so familiar with that DG studio set that I can't get excited about it any more.

Gould -- the set is not recommended at all for the late sonatas. You have to cherry pick from his other Beethoven sonata Cds to get his outstanding performances.

Brendel (Vox -- the only one I know) He's good, but not good enough to compete with Heidsieck or  Arrau. Clangy sound I think when the music's loud.

Lewis -- so far I like -- but I need more time for the relationship to turn from like to love. And although I like in the earlier sonatas I don't think he's competitative in the late ones.

[George]

Kempff -- boring I'm afraid, IMO.

That was my initial impression too. Over time though, they grew on me. Not saying that they will necessarily grow on you, but thought I'd mention it.

[Mandryka]

That was my initial impression too. Over time though, they grew on me. Not saying that they will necessarily grow on you, but thought I'd mention it.

I have known it for nearly 30 years!

Apart from the Pastoral and maybe Op 79(? -- will check later) I can't get into it.

[George]

I have known it for nearly 30 years!

Cool, just thought I'd mention it. 

[Herman]

Pretend your house is on fire, the flames are lapping at your heels and you do not have time to grab your 4 or 5 separate CD's of the late sonatas. (You also did not burn them to a single cd )Which SET are your going to grab(part of a 32 set are ok as well).

wrong thinking. Perhaps you have missed the many times there was general agreement no single artist is the best in everything.

[jlaurson]

You don't want us to take the "easy way out"?
OK. In that case it'd be Pollini for all five.

(You're the customer. And you're wishes are fine...
no "wrong thinking" in that "house on fire" scenario.
As long as you are aware that sometimes generalizing
means making compromises, it's a good exercise in
conciseness.



Pollini, esp. in 106, 111, but really all five late sonatas.

Special mention for Richter-Haaser in 101, though. And I like Backhausen in 109 and 110.

Beethoven Late Piano Sonatas   Pollini DG

Beethoven 6 Late(ish) Piano Sonatas   Richter Haaser Philips

[sam adams]

wrong thinking. Perhaps you have missed the many times there was general agreement no single artist is the best in everything.

So I take it that you will calmly walk away emptyhanded, with the smell of melting jewel-cases hanging thick in the air, with the comforting realization that no artist is best in everything. It is admirable to sacrifice for one's principles.

[sam adams]

I am mildly suprised of no mention of Rosen. He seems to get much love around the web for his set.