5 Worst Composers Ever!!

[ChamberNut]

  For me it would be Vivaldi, who didn't write 500 concertos but the same concerto 500 times

Whatever!  How clever, just because Stravinsky said so? 

Fine, I will listen to the same Vivaldi concerto 500 times, or each of the 500 concertos 500 times before a half hour of Handel.  Anyday.

[Gurn Blanston]

Whatever!  How clever, just because Stravinsky said so? 

Fine, I will listen to the same Vivaldi concerto 500 times, or each of the 500 concertos 500 times before a half hour of Handel.  Anyday.

You and me, Ray.

BTW, I have nearly all 500...



----------------
Listening to:
Quatuor Festetics - Hob 03 27 Quartet in Eb for Strings Op 17 #3 4th mvmt - Allegro di molto

[Air]

I don't quite get what the qualification for a composer is here.

[DavidW]

That I do not like Mozart is not a valid, relevant point?

How many times must it be explained that you are NOT defending your dislike of Mozart.  You are defending your choice to characterize him as one of the worst, you can say "least favorite"
but you still have to defend why you would like him least of all composers, it's still the same thing.  You can't expect to post on a worst of thread with famous composers and not have to defend yourself.

To the intolerant, I will always be wrong.

You really, really have that reversed.  That's why I posted that list.  When you rank Mozart so low it means that you are ranking everyone else above him.  Do you actually enjoy Dittersdorf more than Mozart?  Do you enjoy Greg's music more than Mozart (sorry Greg)?  You have shown a huge intolerance towards Mozart, I'm trying to show how extreme your opinion really is.  To you, you think of yourself as moderate, but you are really, really, really not moderate in expressing a complete hatred of Mozart's music.  And that's just one of the composers on your list, your extreme view towards all of them I find highly disagreeable.  And you don't seem to have any rational foundation for it, nor have you really compared them to the music of others.  It's a list written with no thought behind it.  If you had put forth more effort you would have an interesting list, but this is only interesting in how extreme it is.

I have never been able to understand why I must be taken to task for stating my honest opinion on this...!

Perhaps instead of seeing yourself as the victim, consider that HUGE list of classical composers instead.  Think about it.  You have heard almost nothing in that era, you probably have no appreciation for his music relative to his contemporaries, yet you perceive your judgment as informed.  Hmmm...

I hardy think admiration for Mozart is requisite for having good taste in music or having a sound knowledge of music.

Oh I think that if you can not admire some aspect of his music, even if you don't love it, then you do NOT have good taste in music nor do you have sound knowledge in it.

[ChamberNut]

You and me, Ray.

BTW, I have nearly all 500...

I only have about a dozen of them.  Overall, I don't have that much Baroque in my collection.  Something I'm not in any big hurry to address. 

[DavidW]

I don't quite get what the qualification for a composer is here.

Oh a composer is someone that writes music.  It's not distinctly classical, music kind of has to be written down if it's to be performed again regardless of genre.   So I will confidently start listing Journey songs I hate!!

[ChamberNut]

David, settle down. 

I don't understand what the big deal is?  If Tapkaara says he dislikes Mozart's music relative to the other music he's heard, what's really so wrong about that? 

[Tapkaara]

But you used such extreme language to state your utter and complete distaste and hatred for his music, that "worst" conveys what you meant "least favorite" is a retroactive gentling of your OP.

It's not presumptuous, there are only four plausible explanations for having Mozart and Schoenberg on a worst of list, you are-- (a) newbie, (b) narrow in focus, lacking in breadth (worshiping at the shrine of canonized music), (c) crackpot, and (d) troll.  You are clearly not a newbie, not a crackpot, nor are you a troll.  That only leaves lack of breadth.

If I posted a list of worst of-- "Beethoven, Bach, Dvorak and Bartok" you would just as equally be able to label me as lacking in breadth, though in that case trolling is not so easily ruled out.  You can't assume a symmetry between us because you posting your list in the first place broke that symmetry, by posting that list you have invited judgment by your fellow posters.  I have not invited judgment by being clever enough to NOT post my own list.  It works every time.

I did not say that, you put words in my mouth.  I said that it did not count towards breadth, because that is simply listening to THE SAME COMPOSER.  Breadth means listening to MANY COMPOSERS.

I'd like to know if there are other people who believe that, without an appreciation for Mozart or Schönberg, one lacks breadth in classical music. Is this really true?

I'm confused about your last bit. I'm not sure why I have to listen to other composers, some of them obscure, to validate my distate for Mozart?

[ChamberNut]

I'd like to know if there are other people who believe that, without an appreciation for Mozart or Schönberg, one lacks breadth in classical music. Is this really true?

I'm confused about your last bit. I'm not sure why I have to listen to other composers, some of them obscure, to validate my distate for Mozart?

No, to the first question.

And no, you don't have to.

I don't really see it relevant.  If Schonberg or Mozart aren't to your liking, than that is what it is, non?

[DavidW]

I'd like to know if there are other people who believe that, without an appreciation for Mozart or Schönberg, one lacks breadth in classical music. Is this really true?

It's not simply a lack of appreciation, it is how profoundly COMPLETE your lack of appreciation is.  To put them as bottom of the barrel means that you must not listen to a wide variety of music.  It's just that simple.  If you had put lesser composers on that list, I would not question the variety of music that you've heard.  I mean if you can't find any redeeming value to their music than how can you have any kind of real perspective on either the classical era, the modern era or contemporary music?  How would that be possible?

I'm confused about your last bit. I'm not sure why I have to listen to other composers, some of them obscure, to validate my distate for Mozart?

The same reason that if you didn't listen to jazz, and then say listened to only Miles Davis and then characterized him as your least favorite, it's not really a valid opinion.  He would also be your favorite, you just happened to not like him.  Ditto Mozart.  If you don't hear music from that era to properly frame his music then you do not have perspective.  It would probably turn out that once you really got used to the language and could sort out your own personal preferences, I doubt that you would still rank Mozart that low.

[ChamberNut]

Who started this thread in the first place anyway? 

SNYPRRR!!! 

[DavidW]

David, settle down. 

I don't understand what the big deal is?  If Tapkaara says he dislikes Mozart's music relative to the other music he's heard, what's really so wrong about that? 

Hey now, that is very dishonest of you.  If he said "I dislike Mozart relative to the other music that I've heard" there would be no debate at all.  He didn't say that.  He said "I will list 5 that I can't stand".  Can't stand.  CAN'T STAND.  CAN'T STAND.  That is absolutely absurd and demands an attack.  He invites it.  With language like that, he clearly invites antagonism.

[Tapkaara]

Well David, while I'm sure there is no malice intended towards me, it is obvious tha I will not be able to state my case to you and have you accept it. And that's OK.

Again, I never said Mozart was one of the worst composers ever. I said he was one of my least favorites. Anyway you try to slice it or analyze it, that's what I said.

It is not my personal belief that an admiration for Mozart (or Schönberg for that matter) is needed to consider yourself an individual with good musical taste. Nor do I believe hearing every obscure composer in a period of music makes one a better judge of taste than someone who has not heard as many obscure composers. I don't think I need to hear every piano concerto of the classical period before I am able to make a judgement of classical era piano concertos I like or don't like.

And finally, for you to make a judgement call on my lack of breadth and thus lack of understanding of "great music" is extremely presumptuous and, if I may say so, just a little pompous. You may know more obscure composers than I do, but that does not make you a paragon of good taste, nor does that make me someone who just doesn't get it. I've been listening to classical music for about 15 years, and I think after that amount of time, I have had a good opportunity to hear lots of music on the radio, on disc and in the hall, and as a consequence, I've been able to cultivate my tastes and figure out what I care for and what I don't. I am sorry if in my (I suppose much too short) classical career that I have not been able, as of yet, to embrace Mozart, Schönberg (and indeed many others), but it is the case and I don't think that "lack of breadth" on my part can (or should) be used against me.

I'll let you have the last word, and I hope that I have made myself at least a little more clear! Not looking to start arguments, just trying to explain myself.

[Dana]

So I will confidently start listing Journey songs I hate!!

She's just a small town girl, living in a LOOOOONely wooooooooorld!

[ChamberNut]

Hey now, that is very dishonest of you.  If he said "I dislike Mozart relative to the other music that I've heard" there would be no debate at all.  He didn't say that.  He said "I will list 5 that I can't stand".

Well to me David, that kind of translates to disliking relative to the other music he's heard.  Just worded differently.  Just saying.

[Dana]

It is not my personal belief that an admiration for Mozart (or Schönberg for that matter) is needed to consider yourself an individual with good musical taste...

And finally, for you to make a judgement call on my lack of breadth and thus lack of understanding of "great music" is extremely presumptuous and, if I may say so, just a little pompous...

     The definition of good taste is determined by the people who who write for Tempo Quarterly and the New York Times. Please forgive us if the pompacity (to invent a word) of the establishment rubs off on us If those people actually had the right to call us good and bad people, I wouldn't be allowed to associate myself with about 1/2 the people I know, and most of the people who would come to my concerts!

[DavidW]

I am neither pompous nor am I a self-proclaimed paragon of good taste, nor am I being presumptuous, nor am I simply flaunting a knowledge of obscure composers (you must have absolutely, completely missed the point of that list if you I think I posted a wiki list to flaunt knowledge), nor am I saying that you must exhaustively listen to all music before offering an opinion.

But my judgment call is sound, you clearly don't appreciate Mozart because you don't appreciate the classical era.  I've thrown that at you several times, and you did not seem to disagree with that.  You have hope, if you take my advise and familiarize yourself with that era you might find an appreciation that you do not currently have.  I don't care if you have listened to music in every medium over 15 years, you could have spent 90% of that time listening to Sibelius symphonies on repeat just as Eric listens to one single opera on repeat.  Stop being offended, and take it to heart and expand your horizons.  You could at least be able to replace Mozart with someone of lesser talent on your hatred list.  And that would be a huge step in the right direction.

I assumed that like everyone else you came here to broaden your horizons, and not simply to stubbornly defend narrow tastes.

[DavidW]

Well to me David, that kind of translates to disliking relative to the other music he's heard.  Just worded differently.  Just saying.

Tone is everything, one message is gentle and the other is harsh.  One invites a mere raise of the eyebrow, and the other invites a smackdown.  Just saying.  Wording something differently is to say something different.

[ChamberNut]

Tone is everything, one message is gentle and the other is harsh. 

I agree with you here.  I guess I just didn't take Tapkaara's message as harsh. 

*handshake*

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Has anyone actually heard anything by Richard Nanes? He may be a plausible candidate for Worst Composer Ever.

According to the information that has come my way, he is a rich dilettante who bribes orchestras to perform and record his work. The few critical comments I have read concerning the Nanes oeuvre have been uniformly negative, often viciously so.