Topic: Beethoven in Period Performances

[Que]

I've posted this already on the Brahms thread, but it fits here perfectly!
A HIP performance of Beethoven's horn sonata - with a natural horn - coupled with Brahms and Kruft.
Previously issued on Harmonia Mundi, with Lowell Greer (horn), Steven Lubin en Stephanie Chase.

Warmly recommended! (and irresistibly cheap.. )

Q


       (click picture for link)

[Bunny]

I take it they hit the bullseye, Bunny? 

Ken Noland's bullseye.

[Bunny]

I've posted this already on the Brahms thread, but it fits here perfectly!
A HIP performance of Beethoven's horn sonata - with a natural horn - coupled with Brahms and Kruft.
Previously issued on Harmonia Mundi, with Lowell Greer (horn), Steven Lubin en Stephanie Chase.

Warmly recommended! (and irresistibly cheap.. )

Q


       (click picture for link)

That's a very interesting recording.  I just found this one at the NYPL that includes the sonata for fortepiano and horn and the quintet for fortepiano and wind instruments , but this one is outrageously expensive on Amazon - used.  Again, the picture is the link.

[Que]

The granddaddies of HIP Beethoven cycles are the Hogwood and Norrington sets.  Of the two, I prefer the Hogwood.  Other great HIP cycles include the Gardiner and Brüggen.  Gardiner's set has a sweeter tone than the Brüggen, whose sound can be a bit harsh.    Of all the HIP cycles, the Brüggen is probably the most radical sounding.  At this point, I think the Brüggen cycle is oop, but sets can still be found at reasonable price from some vendors.  It never had wide release in the USA and it's almost impossible to find here.  I hate to admit it, but I haven't cracked the cellophane on the Tafelmusik Beethoven 5th and 6th.  There's been too much to do lately.  FWIW, the two most popular of these cycles are the Gardiner and Hogwood, with sound quality on the Gardiner a bit better than the older cycle.  The first Norrington cycle is not a particular favorite of mine.  Although Gramophone cited it as one of the most important (or best) Beethoven cycles ever made, I really don't think that it wore very well.  His second cycle with more conventional forces is preferable. 

Thanks Bunny, for your helpful comments. Funny thing is that the Brüggen Eroïca was the first I ever heard! I got it over two decades ago from the library - it must have been just recorded then. For one reason or another I never revisited that recording - it took me a while, years later, to figure out which recording it had been BTW....

Zig-Zag Territoires has announced  that that Immerseel's Beethoven cycle will be released in 2008:
(..)  It's certainly something to look forward to.

This is very interesting news and given my admiration for Van Immerseel, something to look forward to indeed!

This HIP cycle with conductor Roy Goodman hasn't been mentioned yet, does anyone know it?



Q

[Heather Harrison]

I have the Hanover Band set.  It has been in my collection for many years.  At the time I got it, I found it interesting, but defects in the sound quality (it sounds like it was recorded in some huge cavernous room with lots of reverb) detracted from it somewhat.  It is still interesting, but not my favorite.  The Hanover Band is much better in their Haydn performances for Hyperion.

I also have the Gardiner set, and that one is now the standard Beethoven set that I usually turn to when I want to listen to his symphonies.  (But I sometimes listen to Mahler's re-orchestration of the 9th - definitely not HIP, but interesting.)  Gardiner's performances breathed new life into these symphonies for me.  I find most performances on modern orchestras to be overly muddled.

I might check out one of the other symphony sets one day, and I would also like to hear the piano concertos on fortepiano and an original-instrument orchestra.  Recommendations in this thread may well end up in my collection.

Heather

[Gurn Blanston]

OK, well you guys already have a good start, glad d minor provided a link to this, because I had missed it somehow   

Symphonies. I have Norrington 1 (don't care for it), Hogwood (like it a lot, except IMO he screwed up the 9th by taking Norrington's silly advice about playing the Turkish March as a Marche Funebre), and Gardiner (love it to death). And then one that you guys seem to have missed, which is Hanover Band/Goodman. This is a very good reading from beginning to end. And has a very nice Missa and Overtures as a bonus. Of the 4 sets, this one is the most, to my ears, like listening to an period instruments set. It sits solidly in 2nd place behind Gardiner in my esteem.

Here is a nice disk for you, Haffner. The Eroica Quartet playing Op 74, 95 & 135. I have only heard one disk of the QM (who I love in Haydn and Mozart), and IMO they tend to play too damned slow, even though it is lovely playing and sounding. I have the Smithson Quartet playing Op 18 on DHM. It is outstanding, but our non-European members may have a bit of a chore to find it, I got it from Germany, and a private seller at that. I was delighted to pay 23€ including S & H for the set, believe me! 

I would like to get some feedback from anyone who has heard the Brautigam sonatas so far. I really need a fortepiano sonata cycle, and they are amazingly thin on the ground. The best choice to date is Badura-Skoda on Astreé, but try and find it...

[Gurn Blanston]

I have the Hanover Band set.  It has been in my collection for many years.  At the time I got it, I found it interesting, but defects in the sound quality (it sounds like it was recorded in some huge cavernous room with lots of reverb) detracted from it somewhat.  It is still interesting, but not my favorite.  The Hanover Band is much better in their Haydn performances for Hyperion.

Heather,
I believe it is a church, actually, somewhere in England. Their Schubert set suffers from the same problem, but moreso. I have trained myself to ignore that issue because I like the playing so much...

[George]

I would like to get some feedback from anyone who has heard the Brautigam sonatas so far. I really need a fortepiano sonata cycle, and they are amazingly thin on the ground. The best choice to date is Badura-Skoda on Astreé, but try and find it...

I've heard enough to be waiting for the complete set. In other words, I was very impressed. Nice energy and zippy tempos. 

They have some at eclassical, but I guess you already know that.

[Gurn Blanston]

As for the Concert of Nations/Savall "Eroica" and Coriolan, It is hands down the best 3rd going, and a fine "Coriolan" too. The horns in the Scherzo are hell on wheels!   

[Bunny]

As for the Concert of Nations/Savall "Eroica" and Coriolan, It is hands down the best 3rd going, and a fine "Coriolan" too. The horns in the Scherzo are hell on wheels!   

Yes, that is one great Eroica!  Those horns are as brassy as a peroxide blond.  It is too bad that Savall has not recorded more of the symphonies; one can only hope.  I haven't heard the Roy Goodman Beethoven cycle, but I'll be on the lookout for it now. 

The Brautigam sonatas are excellent.  He plays a wonderful sounding instrument and as always his play is so elegant and yet filled with the energy and forward impulse that you want in Beethoven.  If he continues with the same quality, this will be a reference cycle for fortepiano or even conventional piano. 

I have ordered a cd of Beethoven sonatas and other music for fortepiano by Trudeliese Leonhardt, but that has not yet arrived.  I am hoping that these will be competitive with the Brautigam.  The other Beethoven sonata cycle on fortepiano that I know of, but have not yet bought, is the one done by Malcolm Bilson and some of his students at Cornell University.  It's costly, but not prohibitively so. Unfortunately, I have heard that the sonatas are done in very uneven fashion depending on who was playing.  I haven't heard anything about the sound quality of the set.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I have only heard one disk of the QM (who I love in Haydn and Mozart), and IMO they tend to play too damned slow, even though it is lovely playing and sounding.

Back in the days of Tower I had the opportunity to sample the first of the QM's Op.18 release and after several dedicated and lengthy attempts (over a period of weeks) I simply couldn't find much to enjoy.

Too slow is an apt description of the QM's approach. Almost solemn, reverential, and surprisingly a tad heavy! Not very HIP it sounded.

Much as I adore the QM in Mozart what I've heard so far of their Beethoven leaves me cool.



 

[Bunny]

I've heard enough to be waiting for the complete set. In other words, I was very impressed. Nice energy and zippy tempos. 

They have some at eclassical, but I guess you already know that.

George, When I wrote to Bis about the possibility of a box set of Brautigam's Haydn being forthcoming, I received a politely ironic reply that they weren't about to give away the Haydn at a discount before they had recouped the cost of the recordings.  I have the feeling that a Beethoven box set will be a long time coming.  I understand that volume 4 has either just been released or is about to be released along with volume 5 soon after. 

Meanwhile, Simax has just released the newest addition to Thomas Dausgaard's cycle of Complete Orchestral Works of Beethoven, but it's not yet available through ArkivMusic.  They have also started to sell downloads of the Beethoven as well, but I don't know the bitrate they offer it at.  It's an expensive set, no matter how you get it.  It's not pure HIP, but is extremely well done hybrid style performances.  Vibrato is toned down, they use a chamber sized orchestra and the winds and brasses are very prominent.  The Eroica and Pastoral are particularly fine. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Yes, that is one great Eroica!  Those horns are as brassy as a peroxide blond.  It is too bad that Savall has not recorded more of the symphonies; one can only hope.  I haven't heard the Roy Goodman Beethoven cycle, but I'll be on the lookout for it now. 

The Brautigam sonatas are excellent.  He plays a wonderful sounding instrument and as always his play is so elegant and yet filled with the energy and forward impulse that you want in Beethoven.  If he continues with the same quality, this will be a reference cycle for fortepiano or even conventional piano. 

I have ordered a cd of Beethoven sonatas and other music for fortepiano by Trudeliese Leonhardt, but that has not yet arrived.  I am hoping that these will be competitive with the Brautigam.  The other Beethoven sonata cycle on fortepiano that I know of, but have not yet bought, is the one done by Malcolm Bilson and some of his students at Cornell University.  It's costly, but not prohibitively so. Unfortunately, I have heard that the sonatas are done in very uneven fashion depending on who was playing.  I haven't heard anything about the sound quality of the set.

Brassy indeed!

Thanks for the Brautigam info. I really enjoy his Mozart, Haydn and Kraus, not only can he play, but next to Immerseel he has the nicest sounding fortepiano around. Really, it is only a matter of time before I take the plunge. BIS is not big on the idea of coming out with a later-released box set, so I might as well do it now. 

I looked at a disk or two of that Leonhardt set too. I really haven't heard anything at all by him (?), so I held off. Please let us know what you think when you get yours.

I have a few random disks of fortepiano sonatas and bagatelles. Like Lubimov doing "Pathetique", "Moonlight" & "Waldstein" on an 1806 Broadwood (Erato). He is really quite a good player, but the Broadwood has seen better days (!), unless you are really into that sort of thing, you will probably not care for the sound. However, if you are... 

My favorite single "other' disk is Andras Schiff on Hungaroton playing "Beethoven's Broadwood Piano" (the name of the disk). He plays the bagatelles of Op 119 & 126 (very nice), and then the Ecossaises, the 2 waltzes, a couple Allegrettos, very nice. Schiff can really play Beethoven well, IMO, and this piano (owned for a long time by Liszt and willed to the National Museum of Hungary) has been fully restored and sounds great. I also have that John van Buskirk "Art of the Fortepiano" disk which has JC Bach Sonata in c Op 17 #2, Mozart's Eb (K 282), Clementi's f Op 13 #6, and Beethoven's C, Op 2 #3 (on Lyrichord/Koch) This is a nice disk to have, it is quite evolutionary in its presentation, very nice playing, but it doesn't tell you about the fortepiano used. It sounds a lot like the 1803 Clementi that Newman uses in his Mozart cycle.

[Bunny]

Brassy indeed!

Thanks for the Brautigam info. I really enjoy his Mozart, Haydn and Kraus, not only can he play, but next to Immerseel he has the nicest sounding fortepiano around. Really, it is only a matter of time before I take the plunge. BIS is not big on the idea of coming out with a later-released box set, so I might as well do it now. 

I looked at a disk or two of that Leonhardt set too. I really haven't heard anything at all by him (?), so I held off. Please let us know what you think when you get yours.

I have a few random disks of fortepiano sonatas and bagatelles. Like Lubimov doing "Pathetique", "Moonlight" & "Waldstein" on an 1806 Broadwood (Erato). He is really quite a good player, but the Broadwood has seen better days (!), unless you are really into that sort of thing, you will probably not care for the sound. However, if you are... 

My favorite single "other' disk is Andras Schiff on Hungaroton playing "Beethoven's Broadwood Piano" (the name of the disk). He plays the bagatelles of Op 119 & 126 (very nice), and then the Ecossaises, the 2 waltzes, a couple Allegrettos, very nice. Schiff can really play Beethoven well, IMO, and this piano (owned for a long time by Liszt and willed to the National Museum of Hungary) has been fully restored and sounds great. I also have that John van Buskirk "Art of the Fortepiano" disk which has JC Bach Sonata in c Op 17 #2, Mozart's Eb (K 282), Clementi's f Op 13 #6, and Beethoven's C, Op 2 #3 (on Lyrichord/Koch) This is a nice disk to have, it is quite evolutionary in its presentation, very nice playing, but it doesn't tell you about the fortepiano used. It sounds a lot like the 1803 Clementi that Newman uses in his Mozart cycle.

Trudeliese is a woman's name.  She is the sister of Gustav Leonhardt.

[Gurn Blanston]

Trudeliese is a woman's name.  She is the sister of Gustav Leonhardt.

   I thought that might be the case, but I just didn't know (thus the (?)) Thanks, learn something new every day.

[George]

George, When I wrote to Bis about the possibility of a box set of Brautigam's Haydn being forthcoming, I received a politely ironic reply that they weren't about to give away the Haydn at a discount before they had recouped the cost of the recordings.  I have the feeling that a Beethoven box set will be a long time coming. 

To quote George Harrison "I can wait forever, I've got time." 

[Bogey]

For the symphonies I have Gardiner and Hogwood.  I like them both, though I'd pick Hogwood in a pinch.  Gardiner is beautifully played, swift smooth and clean almost to the point that you forget it's HIP.  Hogwood is a bit less manicured, if you will -- the sound is a little more rough, the strings have more bite, they're more astringent and less blended.  The whole point of a HIP set, for me, is to highlight the constrasts in instruments and technique with the more modern sets -- for that reason, I prefer Hogwood to Gardiner.

Your review here, which I believe you shared with me before JW is exactly why I went for the Hogwoods (still missing #9).  I have not been disappointed with this purchase and my wife loves them as well.

[lukeottevanger]

The Bruno Weil/Tafelmusik recording of the Piano concerto no. 5 (Emperor) also has the Violin concerto, Vera Beths on violin; and that is the only recording I know of of the violin concerto.

There's Stephanie Chase's reading on the Cala label, with Goodman and The Hanover Band (coupled with the two Romances). I must say I really like that one. The opening timpani solo is so much more impactful done HIP, to my ears. And that is so important, with this simplest and most all-pervasive of motives.

[George]

I think its time I've heard my Weil/Tefelmusik CD of the 5th and 6th symphonies. Will report back later. 

[Haffner]

Here is a nice disk for you, Haffner. The Eroica Quartet playing Op 74, 95 & 135. I have only heard one disk of the QM (who I love in Haydn and Mozart), and IMO they tend to play too damned slow, even though it is lovely playing and sounding.

Gurn, you are magnificent! The Eroica Q is now on my shortlist, thank you!