Havergal Brian.

[John Whitmore]

Ooh er.
I shall go to the Post Office now

Are you back yet?

[hbswebmaster]

Steve,

Apologies if the intent of the website is confusing regarding membership; I'll attend to that right away. Johan is absolutely correct - the original intent of the PayPal button was to make joining or making subscriptions easier, although it can also be used for buying books, CDs etc. It's just a case of annotating what the payment is for in the appropriate box, and sending John Grimshaw an email to confirm that you've done it. No need for cheques - in fact I couldn't say with any certainty where my chequebook is any more!

I hear what you say about online forms and such; in fact that will be very much easier to accomplish once the new website goes live in a little while. We'll be able to do all sorts of things!

[John Whitmore]

Have you all heard the Philip Jones recording of The Cenci fanfare? Here it is:

http://www.mediafire.com/?dzg9x50v2uv3l9h

[cilgwyn]

Oh yes. Brief,but very imposing. Of course,there is more......
I remember borrowing the original LP from Haverfordwest library,back in the days when libraries stocked off beat repertory like that.
I'm afraid the other items on the LP bored me.
Philip Jones did a rather good  'Pictures at an Exhibition',didn't they?

[John Whitmore]

Oh yes. Brief,but very imposing. Of course,there is more......
I remember borrowing the original LP from Haverfordwest library,back in the days when libraries stocked off beat repertory like that.
I'm afraid the other items on the LP bored me.
Philip Jones did a rather good  'Pictures at an Exhibition',didn't they?

Rather good? It was astonishing. The late great James Watson in full flow.

[Brian]

Hyperion's November release list published and 'Gothic'-free. (So far.)

[Philip Legge]

Congratulations, Martyn, on your new rôle as editor-elect of the Havergal Brian Society newsletter!

The absence of the Gothic from the proposed November discs from Hyperion is noted; my previous remarks give rise to the suspicion it will be in the December list. In the meantime, there are two new Brabbins discs (Somervell & Cowen piano concertos and Vaughan Williams & McEwen concertante works with viola): he is the new go-to man for the British romantic/early 20C repertoire!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

That'll be a Brian Christmas, then. (I notice we have two Martyn Bs in Philip's post - Becker and Brabbins )

[John Whitmore]

Congratulations, Martyn, on your new rôle as editor-elect of the Havergal Brian Society newsletter!

The absence of the Gothic from the proposed November discs from Hyperion is noted; my previous remarks give rise to the suspicion it will be in the December list. In the meantime, there are two new Brabbins discs (Somervell & Cowen piano concertos and Vaughan Williams & McEwen concertante works with viola): he is the new go-to man for the British romantic/early 20C repertoire!

Brabbins seems to be going the same way as other British conductors by spending his time in dusty cul de sacs mining a few gems here and there and then committing stuff to disc that is only for the specialist market. He, like Tod Handley before him, does a great service to the cause of British music but what we have never had is a world class conductor with the international clout to get these works exposed at the highest level on a regular basis. Rattle does a bit of Britten and Elgar (and Walton) but forget the rest. Berliners aren't going to turn out for Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Delius ( now THERE'S a composer) and Bliss. Since he left Birmingahm he's left the British works at home, hasn't he? I can never envisage a time when the Musikverein or the Concertgebouw resound to the music of Brian, Elgar, Walton or any other British composer to be brutal about it. Bernstein apparently liked what he saw of the Gothic but you have to judge people on what they do and not what they say. He did nothing. I have a love of Elgar but hearing his music in France is about as rare as England winning the World Cup. I've come to the conclusion that most of the music that means a lot to me isn't fit for the international market. British music seems to be marooned in Britain. A shame but not far from the truth. Discuss........

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I've come to the conclusion that most of the music that means a lot to me isn't fit for the international market. British music seems to be marooned in Britain. A shame but not far from the truth. Discuss........

OK - I'll discuss.

My impression, as an American who likes a lot of British music and has lived in a lot of places (currently Russia), is as follows. Your above statement about British music being "marooned" in its home country is an exaggeration. Let's take one example: Elgar. For some reason, he gets played quite a lot here in Moscow. In the last few years, local forces have played the Enigma Variations, both concertos, one of the symphonies, the Piano Quintet, and just recently I heard a nice performance of the Violin Sonata as part of a chamber concert. In the USA, the major Elgar works get fairly frequent exposure - certainly Enigma and the two concertos figure most often, but if you're lucky you might hear one of the symphonies or something like Falstaff.

Music by Walton, Britten and Vaughan Williams also gets played, not as frequently as the top-tier composers, but it's certainly far from being shut out. When I was moving from Prague a few years ago, one of my regrets was that I had to miss the Czech Philharmonic playing VW 6th Symphony. And what about all those non-British conductors (Haitink, Slatkin, Zinman, Berglund, etc.) who perform this music?

What I do think is unjustly neglected is the music by the lesser-known composers like Bax, Rubbra, Simpson, Brian, Frankel, Arnold etc. But I think that stuff hardly gets performed even in Britain, right? So it's not just an international problem.

[John Whitmore]

OK - I'll discuss.

My impression, as an American who likes a lot of British music and has lived in a lot of places (currently Russia), is as follows. Your above statement about British music being "marooned" in its home country is an exaggeration. Let's take one example: Elgar. For some reason, he gets played quite a lot here in Moscow. In the last few years, local forces have played the Enigma Variations, both concertos, one of the symphonies, the Piano Quintet, and just recently I heard a nice performance of the Violin Sonata as part of a chamber concert. In the USA, the major Elgar works get fairly frequent exposure - certainly Enigma and the two concertos figure most often, but if you're lucky you might hear one of the symphonies or something like Falstaff.

Music by Walton, Britten and Vaughan Williams also gets played, not as frequently as the top-tier composers, but it's certainly far from being shut out. When I was moving from Prague a few years ago, one of my regrets was that I had to miss the Czech Philharmonic playing VW 6th Symphony. And what about all those non-British conductors (Haitink, Slatkin, Zinman, Berglund, etc.) who perform this music?

What I do think is unjustly neglected is the music by the lesser-known composers like Bax, Rubbra, Simpson, Brian, Frankel, Arnold etc. But I think that stuff hardly gets performed even in Britain, right? So it's not just an international problem.

I'm pleased to hear that Elgar is played in Moscow. I also accept that I have exaggerated a bit (but only a bit) - maybe to get a response. I also accept that Elgar does OK in the USA - there is a kinship between our two countries in many things, including music. Ormandy was pretty good in Elgar and Delius. I also accept that the 4 conductors you mention do take a shine to some British music but to be fair these blokes have strong links with the UK - Berglund and Bournemouth, Haitink with the LPO, Slatkin at the BBC etc. The point I make is that the very top tier internationally (conductors and orchestras) have next to nothing to do with British music except for Enigma and The Planets. Your point about the way we treat our composers in our own country is well made. Since his death Tippett has fallen off the map, Simpson has suffered a similar fate. Frankel is superb but most people know nothing about him. Malcolm Arnold was treated appallingly by the Brish musical press and the BBC.  Actually, I'm now feeing even more depressed - our composers are not only ignored overseas but neglected at home. Thanks for your response.

[John Whitmore]

LPs safely arrived from Steve (Hatoff). Just transferring the Brian Suite as I type. Watch this space for uploads later today. 3 other LPs he sent me will also prove to interesting especially the Brian Legend. More from me later.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Excellent!


As for Delius - he is, with Brian, my personal favourite.

[karlhenning]

. . . Bernstein apparently liked what he saw of the Gothic but you have to judge people on what they do and not what they say. He did nothing.

Well, this being the Brian thread . . . in terms of Brian, sure, Lenny did nothing.  I think it only fair to Lenny to take in the bigger picture though, and in that context, this flat curtain line doesn't do the conductor anything like justice.  Do let's judge him on what he did, and he was very ambitious, and did a great deal.  Like any of us, I expect, he talked more than he did (the old saw, When all is said and done, there's a lot more said than done);  but his level of activity was truly voracious and energetic.  I think rather than resenting Lenny for having "neglected" Brian (he was Massachusetts-born, after all, and did a great deal for living US composers), one ought to give him credit (if only modest credit) for having paid some attention to Brian.

Carry on . . . .

[Dundonnell]

I'm pleased to hear that Elgar is played in Moscow. I also accept that I have exaggerated a bit (but only a bit) - maybe to get a response. I also accept that Elgar does OK in the USA - there is a kinship between our two countries in many things, including music. Ormandy was pretty good in Elgar and Delius. I also accept that the 4 conductors you mention do take a shine to some British music but to be fair these blokes have strong links with the UK - Berglund and Bournemouth, Haitink with the LPO, Slatkin at the BBC etc. The point I make is that the very top tier internationally (conductors and orchestras) have next to nothing to do with British music except for Enigma and The Planets. Your point about the way we treat our composers in our own country is well made. Since his death Tippett has fallen off the map, Simpson has suffered a similar fate. Frankel is superb but most people know nothing about him. Malcolm Arnold was treated appallingly by the Brish musical press and the BBC.  Actually, I'm now feeing even more depressed - our composers are not only ignored overseas but neglected at home. Thanks for your response.

Your points are very well made.

One of the other  issues of course is that for a long time time now British orchestras have tended to appoint principal conductors from overseas. If you take, say, the last 20 years or so you find Sir Colin Davis(London Symphony Orchestra 1995-2006), Sir Andrew Davis(BBC Symphony Orchestra 1989-2000), Sir Simon Rattle(City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra 1980-1998), Sir Mark Elder(Halle Orchestra 2000-), Mark Wigglesworth(BBC National Orchestra of Wales 1996-2000), Richard Hickox(BBC National Orchestra of Wales 2000-06) and, now, Donald Runnicles(BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra 2009-). Only Elder and Runnicles are currently in post.

Colin Davis has always been pretty selective in the British music he conducted, as has Rattle. Andrew Davis did quite a lot of the more obscure stuff. Elder does appear to be branching out now a little. Hickox...of course but, very sadly, he is no longer with us. Edward Gardner does not want to be pigeon-holed as a British music specialist.

The chances of Brabbins being appointed to a major British orchestra are not great. He is Principal Guest Conductor of the Royal Flemish Orchestra. I understand that he would like a European opera house but, for the time being, is obviously getting an increasing amount of work recording British music.

The deaths of conductors like Handley and Hickox(and Bryden Thomson earlier) has been a real tragedy for the cause of British music.

I agree about the treatment of British composers in general and Malcolm Arnold certainly can be cited......although I do have to say that Arnold also treated those who wanted to perform his music and tried to help his cause equally appallingly. One understands why this was and it was both tragic and very sad but it certainly did not help. If a composer turns on a conductor and orchestra and roundly abuses them then it is unlikely that they will rush to perform his music again.

(oh....sorry, Karl...nothing to do with HB I know but this thread does seem to be embracing the world )

[karlhenning]

; )

I'm pleased to hear that Elgar is played in Moscow.

Of course, Elgar has long been an established classic . . . and while the Russians naturally keep their rich indigenous lit in regular (and excellent) practice, their high-level organizations are not parochial.  There was also the personal tie between Shostakovich and Britten (and in fact — curious to say, perhaps — the first performance of the War Requiem I ever attended was in the Grand Hall of the Philharmonic in St Petersburg).

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Of course, Elgar has long been an established classic . . . and while the Russians naturally keep their rich indigenous lit in regular (and excellent) practice, their high-level organizations are not parochial. 

It's my impression that Elgar gets more play around here than Bruckner, which is interesting since elsewhere on the Continent the opposite seems to be true. Bruckner has never really caught on in Russia.

It turns out Rozhdestvensky is a big Vaughan Williams fan. I wish he'd get out and conduct more, tho' I don't blame him for taking it easy at his age.

[John Whitmore]

It's my impression that Elgar gets more play around here than Bruckner, which is interesting since elsewhere on the Continent the opposite seems to be true. Bruckner has never really caught on in Russia.

It turns out Rozhdestvensky is a big Vaughan Williams fan. I wish he'd get out and conduct more, tho' I don't blame him for taking it easy at his age.

Bruckner has never caught on in my house either!!!!!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Bruckner has never caught on in my house either!!!!!

Time to emigrate to Russia, then.

[not edward]

It turns out Rozhdestvensky is a big Vaughan Williams fan. I wish he'd get out and conduct more, tho' I don't blame him for taking it easy at his age.

That could be interesting--offhand, I could easily imagine him being rather effective in the 4th, 6th and 9th.

(The man has always had a staggeringly large range of interests. Maybe if he were younger we could have got a Christmas Havergal from him!)