Havergal Brian.

[Winky Willy]

Does anyone have a recording of Dr. Merryheart from the BBC broadcast? I still haven't heard it and don't intend to buy it if I don't have to... (no I am not trying to steal the Dutton transfer) :-)

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Quote from: Winky Willy on Today at 00:16:24

Number 5 is terrific. Unbelievable mastery of the orchestra, and my favorite ending in all Brian's work save the Gothic. The seventh I was expecting a lot from, but I found it unfortunately lacking in melodic inspiration (not one of Brian's strong points, of course!) and memorability. Number four reminds me of Picasso: I can tell the artist knows what he is doing and that the work is powerful, but I find it ugly and unsuccessful (sorry Picasso fans). What I want to know is whether there are any works by Nazi composers which are similar to Four.



I know of a Deutsches Heldenrequiem (German Heroes Requiem). But Haitink, Karajan and Bernstein never recorded it. ;-) As for Symphony No. 7 - the first performance, under Newstone, is the one to hear. Mackerras is good, but Newstone is inspired (I had it on cassette, once...)

[Winky Willy]

Perhaps I need to reserve all my judgments till I have heard all the recordings of the old radio broadcasts. That will take a long while!
It doesn't seem that anyone has ever recorded the Heldenrequiem. Good riddance, I suppose...

[cilgwyn]

  I had  the Newstone 7,but unfortunately .I don't think it survived the big clear out I had a couple of years ago.
And I looked and I looked!
Nearly as bad as accidentally taping over the last few minutes of the Holmes Violin Concerto!
Correction. As bad!
Thank you Dundonnell,where ever you are! (forum wise...or,in bed?!!)

[Dundonnell]

I had  the Newstone 7,but unfortunately .I don't think it survived the big clear out I had a couple of years ago.
And I looked and I looked!
Nearly as bad as accidentally taping over the last few minutes of the Holmes Violin Concerto!
Correction. As bad!
Thank you Dundonnell,where ever you are! (forum wise...or,in bed?!!)

"in bed" Me ....at this time of night   What an absurd idea

I am just getting warmed up   (I didn't tell you about my relative Count Dracula, did I )

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The Mishap of the Holmes Violin Concerto... The reconstruction by Watson fortunately turned out better than expected.

And now - to bed! [yes, Colin!]

[Dundonnell]

The Mishap of the Holmes Violin Concerto... The reconstruction by Watson fortunately turned out better than expected.

And now - to bed! [yes, Colin!]

Sleep well

[cilgwyn]

Good night...although,I don't want to sound too like the Waltons,with everyone joining in! So,maybe 'Nos Da!'

Nos Da!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Many thanks - all the good wishes did their work...

[John Whitmore]

Brian's 'Germanic' symphonies 2-4 - yes, that's what they are. I just listened (again) to 2 and 3. I find the Third the superior work, it is much tauter and more compelling. The Second is full of great ideas, but it doesn't hang together as well. It opens strongly, but the first theme is an amorphous letdown. The best things, for me, in Symphony No. 2 are the slow movement and the finale. 'Das Siegeslied', how much I listen to it, has never really convinced me, though others think and feel differently. I have never found the opening 'Handelian' theme very strong, Brian can do and has done so much better (No. 10 anyone?)


My favourite Brian symphonies - 1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22, 24, 27, 28, 30, 31.
But I like them all...

My list is the same as yours except that it only includes 1,3 and 10.

[John Whitmore]

Got to put a word in for No 7;one of my favourites,but by that,I don't mean it's one of the best. No 3 is my favourite Brian symphony,for some strange reason. I LOVE it! No4 is his worst,if I may use that word! The Poole performance is the one to hear,if you must hear it at all. Just don't mention it to John! The Mackerras performance of No2 makes a more convincing case for this uneven symphony. Unlike the Fourth,it does have it's moments & I would quite like to hear it in a really first rate recording. Having said that,it's still not exactly top of my 'please will you record some more Brian' list!
No 5 is marvellous. I will make up some cd-r's of some of those later symphonies you have listed,Johan, at the first opportunity,beginning with No 13,I think. My old fashioned style 5 cd changer can pop them on and off for me,without my having to move from the comfort of my living room!

Pack it in!!!!!!!!!!! You simply can't hide on this forum

[John Whitmore]

Sorry to go off topic but there are three more LSSO LP restorations online as of this morning. I'm really pleased with the results. That's 7 titles in total. The 3 new ones are:
1) Xenakis: Jonchaies/Douglas Young: Rain, Steam and Speed and Third Night Journey Under the Sea.
1) British and American music conducted by Bliss (his wonderful Introduction and Allegro), Previn (Ireland's Elegy) and Tippett (his Interlude II and Epilogue).
3) Dead in Tune. A musical whodunnit written and narrated by Robin Ray. Music by Herbert Chappell.
Living proof that we played some good music as well as the Brian stuff 
I also had a nice email exchange with Rob Barnett of Musicweb. He very much rated the Brian 22 on CBS and will get a copy and review the restoration shortly so that's good publicity for my old band and HB.
http://www.klassichaus.us/LSSO.php

[cilgwyn]

Hm! Those are My top 3. Although I would place No 7 in fourth place,warts and all! Why don't you like No 6,incidentally? You're the musician,perhaps you can explain what's wrong with it,in you're usual forthright terms.John! I don't play it that much,so I won't be too hurt! I find the way it erupts into 'violence' towards the end clumsy & contrived. It doesn't seem to evolve naturally out of the music that precedes it. There is undoubtedly some very imaginative music & the kind of soundworld that makes HB such an intriguing composer,with all his faults;but a master like Sibelius or Nielsen would have known how to make the transition appear natural & seamless. The effect to my untutored ears is jarring & disjointed,like two broken pieces of a cup or vase that have been glued together & they don't quite fit as well as they should. I think that the fact that's it's origins as a thwarted operatic project may have allot to do with it.
  With all due respect!

[John Whitmore]

Hm! Those are My top 3. Although I would place No 7 in fourth place. Why don't you like No 6,incidentally? You're the musician,perhaps you can explain what's wrong with it,in you're usual forthright terms.John! I don't play it that much,so I won't be too hurt! I find the way it erupts into 'violence' towards the end clumsy & contrived. It doesn't seem to evolve naturally out of the music that precedes it. There is undoubtedly some very imaginative music & the kind of soundworld that makes HB such an intriguing composer,with all his faults;but a master like Sibelius or Nielsen would have known how to make the transition appear natural & seamless. The effect to my untutored ears is jarring & disjointed,like two broken pieces of a cup or vase that have been glued together & they don't quite fit as well as they should. I think that the fact that's it's origins as a thwarted operatic project may have allot to do with it.
  With all due respect!

I have no problems with the rest of the symphonies on Johan's list and like quite a lot of them but a list of favourites, for me at any rate. should be 2 or 3 works rather than a long list of all those pieces but then again Johan loves Brian. I like him but rate less of his work as highly as some fellow forum chums do. I see that 21 is missing. I like that one but that's probably because I am closer to it than most of the others. We seem to share the top 3 anyway!

[Sergeant Rock]

I find the way it erupts into 'violence' towards the end clumsy & contrived. It doesn't seem to evolve naturally out of the music that precedes it....a master like Sibelius or Nielsen would have known how to make the transition appear natural & seamless.

Perhaps it's of my military experience--in which violence could simply erupt out of nowhere, shockingly, taking one completely by surprise--that makes me comfortable (that's not the right word) with Brian's sudden and violent juxtapositions. The music works for me anyway. I'm actually glad he wasn't as transitionally smooth as Sibelius and Nielsen.

Sarge

[Luke]

The ones I can't live without, FWIW, and in order

8, 1, 10

closely followed by

6, 7, 12

I love 9, which I also think is one of Brian's most accesible symphonies, but that's also partly because of its place in the trilogy of 'brothers' 8, 9, 10 which to me is the finest of Brian's post-Gothic acheivements (the Gothic is a category of its own, not better, just separate)

3 is dear to me, and, perversely, perhaps I really do find no fault whatsoever in 4, which I admire fully and would defend vigourously. 16 and 27 are wonderful, and there are pages in the last few symphonies which are deeply moving. But it is the first 12 and particularly 1 and 6-10 which I return to most frequently, at the moment. One thing to add though - my very favourite Brian symphonies are often those which have had the best recordings. It follows, doesn't it, that maybe I would find all equally gobsmacking, were they to be presented equally well.

As I said, FWIW. 

One day, BTW, I hope for the time to return to this thread fully and engage in some proper old discussion of the music. I am missing it. But I am reading every post.

[cilgwyn]

Perhaps it's of my military experience--in which violence could simply erupt out of nowhere, shockingly, taking one completely by surprise--that makes me comfortable (that's not the right word) with Brian's sudden and violent juxtapositions. The music works for me anyway. I'm actually glad he wasn't as transitionally smooth as Sibelius and Nielsen.

Sarge

Which reminds me,I better have another listen to No 6,just in case I've put my foot in it,again!

I really would like to expand my list of favourites,a little,to:

   1,3,7 & 10!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Interesting contributions! I really should take the time to comment on my choices... but not now.


Luke, you like No. 12, as do I. I now find that I like Newstone's historic performance best. He takes the funeral march very slowly. At first, I didn't like that, preferring Del Mar's Prom performance from 1966. But after some discussion with Malcolm MacDonald (who likes the funeral march to be played as slowly as possible), I decided to give Newstone another chance. Now his tempo makes perfect sense, and the structure of the symphony becomes very satisfying: two slow middle movements surrounded by two faster ones. What do you think?

[Winky Willy]

I agree about the Twelfth; I find the Newstone tempi to be very satisfying (though I have never heard the Del Mar performance).

[cilgwyn]

Another long review of the Hyperion Gothic (in three parts!) on Musicweb,just in case anyone hasn't seen it!