Havergal Brian.

[John Whitmore]

My point was I'm not going to listen music simply because it's well-orchestrated. It has to be good music too. If it's both, all well and good, if not well-orchestrated, it's still better than bad music well-orchestrated.

I can't disagree with a single word.

[calyptorhynchus]

Just working backwards through the symphonies making CD-rs. 11-14 fit on one disk (just), so that means the next one can have 8-10 on it.

[John Whitmore]

Just working backwards through the symphonies making CD-rs. 11-14 fit on one disk (just), so that means the next one can have 8-10 on it.

I hope you have the common decency to use the Loughran 10 rather than the professional effort

[cilgwyn]

That's the one to go for! Maybe,I'll graft the LSSO performance & the rest of the Dutton cd onto a cdr? The Brabbins is pretty good....we're not talking Naxos 2 here.........anyway,it's all been said in previous posts!

I finally found the Hull Youth SO set. As soon as you stop looking!!! I was actually looking for the Decca Solti Der Rosenkavalier,which has currently gone AWOL! All this talk about Solti on the Brian thread....and there was the HYSO set,under a pile of cds!!! Right at the bottom!!!! I think it's taken about two b***** weeks!

[cilgwyn]

Actually,the LSSO 10 is so good,maybe it should be re-classified as a 'professional' effort?!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Quote from: cilgwyn on Today at 15:18:15

I think it's taken about two b***** weeks!



Finally! Well done.
>

Actually,the LSSO 10 is so good,maybe it should be re-classified as a 'professional' effort?!

I think we need a fourth performance, combining the best aspects of the three we now have. I still prefer the LSSO.

[cilgwyn]

The Brabbins (it does sound like The Hobbit! ) is a bit of a disappointment! It's certainly not as bad as Naxos 2,or as big a disappointment for Brianites,as the HB Song Book or the Bisengaliev VC. In fact,it's probably quite good,really!
But I still prefer the LSSO or even the 1958 Stanley Pope!

It must be tricky to get 'right' though (whatever that means?! ).

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The Pope is very slow - this doesn't work well for the pre-storm half, but it pays dividends for what comes after. Brabbins is the most exciting in the violent music between the lyrical episode and the coda. And the LSSO is the best overall, also tempo-wise.


IMO, of course!

[John Whitmore]

The Pope is very slow - this doesn't work well for the pre-storm half, but it pays dividends for what comes after. Brabbins is the most exciting in the violent music between the lyrical episode and the coda. And the LSSO is the best overall, also tempo-wise.


IMO, of course!

He's an elderly German so show a bit more respect please

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

 

[cilgwyn]

It's a cracker!

Just found the Solti Der Rosenkavalier. In one of the bags destined for the charity shop. The Decca originals release! (A bit too pricey to take there,I'm afraid!) Fortunately,there never was a Strauss curse!
Or a Bruckner curse,for that matter!

Now I'm listening to it! Strauss is a bit too full off himself for my liking,unlike Brian;but this is quite nice!

Brian curses?!! Dear oh dear!!!

[calyptorhynchus]

I probably won't do 8-10 for some time, my car CD stacker only takes 6 disks and I want to go through 11-32 on six disks several more times. However, the LSSO 10 is my favourite 10!

[cilgwyn]

I just read a post on the UC Forum,that a Cpo cd of Joseph Holbrooke will be recorded in January;but will NOT include his third symphony (ships) because,in the opinion of the conductor Howard Griffiths,it sounds TOO much like a certain Havergal Brian,a composer the conductor,apparently,isn't too fond of!!! Now,I confess I actually quite like some Holbrooke;and I know they were aquainted,but that's the first time I've heard that! Maybe they should record it!!
Hm?! So Howard Griffiths won't be recording any Brian,any time soon! I wonder what he has heard. I hope he's not just judging Brian purely on the Gothic! There's so much else!
Still,each to his own! I wish Cpo would get interested,though!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Someone being disqualified for sounding like Brian, that's a first! I think Howard Shore's music for The Lord of the Rings is sometimes reminiscent of Brian in its scoring for the lower instruments of the orchestra, but apparently Shore doesn't know Brian's music (I asked Doug Adams, writer of the definitive study of Shore's LOTR music, who's on Twitter).

[cilgwyn]

Well,Gareth Vaughan is,apparently,the leading 'authority' on Holbrooke goings on,these days,so it must be true! Holbrooke does have a fondness for the lower instruments of the orchestra,as you put it. Sonorous,deep sounding brass instruments,et al! So there is a similarity there,I suppose. Also,Brian's muse can be a bit gothic (atmosphere wise) at times (Parts of The Tigers) & so can Holbrooke,allot of the time! (His obsession with Edgar Allan Poe!) Other than that,while there is evidence that Holbrooke's style became more astringent towards the end of his career (& I suppose he does have his own sound world,if you listen enough) Holbrooke started of as a late romantic & essentially adhered to that tradition throughout his life, ie Brian seems to have forged an increasingly individualistic path almost from the beginning,while Holbrooke muse remained,solidly, entrenched in the past. In other words,even if you like Holbrooke,you have to admit that while Brians music was constantly evolving,Holbrooke was,in many ways, an old stick in the mud!! Not that it matters of course,I suppose!
Quite frankly,a comparison of that kind really does make me wonder just how much Havergal Brian Howard Griffiths has listened to!!

I wonder what other compositions Howard Griffiths will rule out because they sound too much like Havergal Brian?!!

[Dundonnell]

I just read a post on the UC Forum,that a Cpo cd of Joseph Holbrooke will be recorded in January;but will NOT include his third symphony (ships) because,in the opinion of the conductor Howard Griffiths,it sounds TOO much like a certain Havergal Brian,a composer the conductor,apparently,isn't too fond of!!! Now,I confess I actually quite like some Holbrooke;and I know they were aquainted,but that's the first time I've heard that! Maybe they should record it!!
Hm?! So Howard Griffiths won't be recording any Brian,any time soon! I wonder what he has heard. I hope he's not just judging Brian purely on the Gothic! There's so much else!
Still,each to his own! I wish Cpo would get interested,though!

Oh!!......you read a post on the UC Forum did you Aren't you the lucky man

Why are you still frequenting that "place" when there are such nicer places to visit

Since cpo has recorded most of the tone poems without choral accompaniment and if Griffiths thinks that the 3rd Symphony sounds too much like HB then goodness alone knows what he DOES intend to record. One of the later concertos(the Double or the Quadruple ) or does he intend to duplicate works already recorded by Dutton or Cameo or Marco Polo-which would be daft!(well, certainly, duplicating Dutton recordings would be daft).

Simple solution for CPO. Fire Griffiths and get someone else. He is not that good a conductor anyway

Do I sound bitter/angry

[Hattoff]

Brian, short of money, was payed by Holbrooke as a copyist of his, Holbrooke's, music. I have had the idea for some time that Brian did more than merely copy and that he actually did some orchestration as well?

From reading Eastaugh.

[Albion]

Since cpo has recorded most of the tone poems without choral accompaniment and if Griffiths thinks that the 3rd Symphony sounds too much like HB then goodness alone knows what he DOES intend to record. One of the later concertos(the Double or the Quadruple ) or does he intend to duplicate works already recorded by Dutton or Cameo or Marco Polo-which would be daft!(well, certainly, duplicating Dutton recordings would be daft).

The works to be recorded in January will be the Grasshopper Violin Concerto, The Raven and the Auld Lang Syne Variations. I'm also disappointed that Symphony No.3 (Ships) has been dropped from the schedule and, having looked at the score, I can't begin to fathom the justification given ...



... but anyway the proposed programme is excellent - The Raven certainly deserves a better performance than was meted out to it by Adrian Leaper's orchestra on Marco Polo. Gareth also mentioned that recordings (with a Berlin choir) of The Bells and Queen Mab are still being discussed for a subsequent CPO release (now that would really be something to look forward to).

[Dundonnell]

The Violin Concerto and the Variations on Auld Lang Syne would be new.....and both would indeed be welcome

[cilgwyn]

The final minutes of Holbrookes third symphony were recorded on 78s,actually. I have them as part of a Symposium cd of recordings conducted under the supervision of the composer. I'm going to have to listen to this now,but I don't think that brief extract will be much help! Anyway,I seem to remember it's a sea shanty or something?!! Either way,if it sounds like Havergal Brian,even if it IS by Holbrooke,that surely is one good reason FOR b***** well recording it!!! As to Howard Griffiths capability as a conductor? I really don't know enough about him,but he does like Joseph Holbrooke (as long as he doesn't sound like Havergal Brian?! ) so I'd rather Cpo didn't give him the sack,just yet!!
  Meanwhile,I shall have to lobby Naxos to include the Holbrooke third in their resuscitated Havergal Brian symphony cycle!!!
Dear oh dear,I really have heard it all,now!!
It reminds me of Herbert von Karajan who didn't want to conduct Elgar,whom he regarded as second rate Brahms! (Dundonnell probably has the exact quote! ) Incidentally,I tried to find this quote just now & I just happened on Dr David CF Wrights article 'Elgar: Elgar Unmasked',which is available as a pdf,if you google it! This seems to be about how allot of rather famous people hated Elgar & why? I must admit I was previously unaware that Elgar had a creepy preoccupation with blue womens knickers?!! Hopefully,the article is a spoof?!! I do recall that David Wright has made some crude observations about Holbrooke's Apollo & the Sea-man (there is an innuendo there,if you think about it! ).

NB: Good news about Queen Mab & The Bells,Albion! Time for me to revive the dormant Holbrooke thread,perhaps?!