The Art of Rafael Kubelik

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Kubelík's recording, if I have my story straight, was shelved by Deutsche Grammophon. If you look at the dates, this record should have come out at roughly the same time as Herbert von Karajan's. The assertion has been made that Kubelík's was mothballed in favor of the more-famous conductor's. I don't offer any sort of confirmation or denial.

I'm pinched for time so out of necessity this will be brief...

The Kubelik Meistersinger was not originally a DG product. Bavarian Radio is responsible for recording it. They then approached DG about releasing it but were turned down.

The rumor mill is filled with stories speculating why DG snubbed such a fine recording. One of them being Knight's assertion that Fischer-Dieskau had penciled himself in as the next Sachs on disc and wanted "rights".

Sorry - must rush off...

[PSmith08]

PS, Interesting story about Kubelik's recording being shelved. That is exactly what happened to his Meistersingers recording, DG went with the Jochum highlighting Fischer Dieskau's Hans Sachs. Good as it may be the Kubelik, which has now been available on at least two labels recently, is by a margin the best I know of. An all round excellent cast and the sound simply glows.

I don't have access to the recording at the moment, just moved house, but I seem to recall it was recorded at a concert, so all the virtues of a live performance, but no galumphing stage noises.

Mike

Is this the Meistersinger or the Parsifal? The latter is indeed a studio recording, as Arts Archive makes a point of saying on the back, done in May 1980 in the Munich Herkulessaal. The Parsifal also lacks audience noises, which even the quietest audience makes sooner or later, so I am not inclined to think that it was a concert taping situation. It does, though, look like a BR production. More complexity.

Again, I have no idea why this sat in the vaults for 23 years (1980 to the 2003 copyright date), but something doesn't quite add up in all of this.

[Bunny]

I offered this advice to another member (who shall, unless s/he specifically tells me otherwise, remain anonymous): the choices for Parsifal come down to two recordings. Either Hans Knappertsbusch's 1962 Bayreuth recording on Philips or Rafael Kubelík's 1980 recording on Arts Archive, and it's a matter of taste between them. To my ears, it is really that simple. Kubelík's recording, if I have my story straight, was shelved by Deutsche Grammophon. If you look at the dates, this record should have come out at roughly the same time as Herbert von Karajan's. The assertion has been made that Kubelík's was mothballed in favor of the more-famous conductor's. I don't offer any sort of confirmation or denial.

In any event, Kubelík's set is probably the best post-Knappertsbusch set you could want. The singers are uniformly excellent (with James King and Kurt Moll being standouts in this recording), and the BRSO forces play marvelously. This is just good, idiomatic Wagner: Kubelík doesn't rush things (taking marginally more time than even Knappertsbusch), but things don't seem slow. Orchestrally, I'd say that Kubelík's recording bests Thielemann's, which really revels in the score itself. This recording, had it been released at the time, probably would have been the the set for the 1980s and 1990s. In fact, it would probably be in its second or third incarnation by now. 

Record companies make decisions about which performances they will promote and which they will allow to molder in the can all the time.  Another conductor who ended up suffering as a result of such a decision was Gary Bertini.  For years EMI shelved his Mahler cycle in favor of Tennstedt's and Rattle's.  Not until after he was dead did they come round to issuing his Mahler, and then only in a well designed budget priced box set (which also had its share of production and quality control problems).  I wonder whose Mahler sells better nowadays...

Back in the late 50s through the 60s, Karajan was THE superstar of the classical world.  I still have the Life Magazine Warren Report issue -- Zapruder tape stills and all; turn the page after that article (written by Gerald Ford, no less) and the first eye catching thing you see are photos of Karajan and his wife in bikinis in their yacht on the Mediterranean.  Karajan regularly was featured in Life and Paris Match, and I'll bet in the German equivalent of those magazines as well.  I haven't seen a picture of a conductor in a bathing suit before or since.  It doesn't surprise me that they would kill the Kubelik in favor of the Karajan.  Karajan was just so much more marketable.

[M forever]

Except that we figured out in the meantime that nothing was "killed" here for Karajan. The productions happened anyway, they simply didn't have anything to do at first with DG and DG didn't feel there was enough room in their catalog for them at that time. Plus DG were always extremely reluctant to "buy" recordings they hadn't made themselves, from anybody with anybody.

Yes, we know, Karajan was in the NSDAP and that means he was totaly evil blablabla, and then the old Nazi "killed" Kubelik, what a catastrophy. And total nonsense, of course.

You don't seem to be aware of the fact that Kubelik was one of DG's big stars for decades, nothing he did was "killed" in favor of Karajan. DG apparently found Kubelik very marketable; they produced a lot of recordings with him and while I am not aware of any pictures of him in a bathing suit, DG heavily supported him in many big projects, including really big projects such as recording a complete Mahler cycle with him and even investing in less potentially selling big projects such as recording repertoire like "Gurrelieder" or all the Hartmann symphonies. And they did a complete Beethoven cycle with him at roughly the same time as Karajan, Böhm, and Bernstein.
And literally dozens of other recording projects with Kubelik. So it is not exactly like they didn't take him seriously enough.


The Bertini cycle wasn't "shelved" either, neither in favor of anybody, nor at all. The recordings all came out one by one on EMI whe they were made. And Bertini was still very much alive then - I saw him a number of times with the WDR and the BP. You can easily check that by looking up the recordings on amazon.de, it still shows them all and in which year they were first released.

So, sorry, no big anti-Bertini conspiracy there either. Maybe they didn't come out where you live, but that may have completely different reasons. Maybe EMI didn't feel they wouldn't sell in the US since everyone knows you have the greatest orchestras and superstar conductors of the entire universe right there, so who would have bought recordings by a "provincial" orchestra and a "non-superstar" anyway? Or maybe they did - if you check amazon.com, you can see several of the recordings were released in the US as well, apparently. Although they didn't sell at in the US back then, probably for above reasons.

[knight66]

I was only referring to the Meistersinger, not the Parsifal. I now have my hands on the set. It is not specific beyond dating the performance in Munich in 1967. What I read was that DGG had the rights and prevented the issue of the discs as DFD made it a stipulation in order to reduce the competition against the performance he was recording.

This seemingly is why there was an extreme delay in issuing what is a highly regarded performance. I believe the first issue of the performance was on MYTO in 1992.

Mike

[Bunny]

Except that we figured out in the meantime that nothing was "killed" here for Karajan. The productions happened anyway, they simply didn't have anything to do at first with DG and DG didn't feel there was enough room in their catalog for them at that time. Plus DG were always extremely reluctant to "buy" recordings they hadn't made themselves, from anybody with anybody.

Yes, we know, Karajan was in the NSDAP and that means he was totaly evil blablabla, and then the old Nazi "killed" Kubelik, what a catastrophy. And total nonsense, of course.

You don't seem to be aware of the fact that Kubelik was one of DG's big stars for decades, nothing he did was "killed" in favor of Karajan. DG apparently found Kubelik very marketable; they produced a lot of recordings with him and while I am not aware of any pictures of him in a bathing suit, DG heavily supported him in many big projects, including really big projects such as recording a complete Mahler cycle with him and even investing in less potentially selling big projects such as recording repertoire like "Gurrelieder" or all the Hartmann symphonies. And they did a complete Beethoven cycle with him at roughly the same time as Karajan, Böhm, and Bernstein.
And literally dozens of other recording projects with Kubelik. So it is not exactly like they didn't take him seriously enough.


The Bertini cycle wasn't "shelved" either, neither in favor of anybody, nor at all. The recordings all came out one by one on EMI whe they were made. And Bertini was still very much alive then - I saw him a number of times with the WDR and the BP. You can easily check that by looking up the recordings on amazon.de, it still shows them all and in which year they were first released.

So, sorry, no big anti-Bertini conspiracy there either. Maybe they didn't come out where you live, but that may have completely different reasons. Maybe EMI didn't feel they wouldn't sell in the US since everyone knows you have the greatest orchestras and superstar conductors of the entire universe right there, so who would have bought recordings by a "provincial" orchestra and a "non-superstar" anyway? Or maybe they did - if you check amazon.com, you can see several of the recordings were released in the US as well, apparently. Although they didn't sell at in the US back then, probably for above reasons.

What are you babbling about, M?  Who has said anything about Nazis except you?  Are you going into Austro-Prussian paranoiac overdrive or something?  I was talking purely about the logic behind the merchandising of classical music, not the relative merits of anyone.  And, it's pretty clear that EMI found itself with one Mahler set too many to sell and they felt that Rattle and Tennstedt would be more profitable so the Bertini set was kept back for years.  It's sad that they did that, but no one is suggesting that it was the result of anything other than a recording company flac's boneheaded marketing call, not any conspiracy to hurt Gary Bertini.  And, if the Bertini set was widely available in Europe (and the complete set was not available) then please explain the amazingly high prices the used recordings commanded?  They were briefly released in small numbers without much promotion, and allowed to go oop which is why they were so sought after. 

As to whether DG decided to delay something by Kubelik, the truth is that these decisions are not made based on the quality of the music nor the religion of the conductor.  They aren't made as part of any vast conspiracy to hurt one conductor or help another.  These decisions aren't made by people who are trying to increase the cultural legacy of Western Civilization either. They are made by people looking only at the bottom line.  Every time a high quality recording goes out of print, you can be sure that it's purely a marketing decision.  Delaying the release of a recording is also determined by estimations of what the market will handle at what price, and the amount of profit it will generate, and also by whether the release will cause another, possibly more expensive project to lose money.  You can bet your bottom dollar that at some point if DG were offered the tapes of the Kubelik Wagner they could very well have said, we can't handle it right now because we have other Wagner projects that we are committed to (or rather that they had already sunk money into).  The fact is that no one seems to have felt that those recordings would be profitable, or that they would have affected the profits on other things because they weren't put out for years.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that I was discussing anything other than money.  And you should apologize for pulling the nazi card out of your sleeve when it wasn't even in the deck.  And you might as well admit that Karajan was a genius at self-promotion.  I know there are people who think that he had nothing to do with the hordes of women who followed  him around like groupies after a rock star, but he chose to allow beefcake pictures published of himself.  He knew that it fed his adoring public and gave him leverage in negotiating contracts and especially selling recordings.  Just look at his discography, who has more recordings than him?  That didn't happen because he was the greatest conductor who ever lived, it happened because he was a genius at marketing himself.

I was only referring to the Meistersinger, not the Parsifal. I now have my hands on the set. It is not specific beyond dating the performance in Munich in 1967. What I read was that DGG had the rights and prevented the issue of the discs as DFD made it a stipulation in order to reduce the competition against the performance he was recording.

This seemingly is why there was an extreme delay in issuing what is a highly regarded performance. I believe the first issue of the performance was on MYTO in 1992.

Mike

Mike, this answer wasn't directed at you, but I like what you have written because it is pertinent to the discussion, rather that drivel about nazis.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

The tale of the Kubelik Meistersinger is indeed convoluted.

I first came to know this recording in the early 90's when I bought it on Myto (it's first release). Been a huge fan ever since.

At that time critic William Youngren reviewed the recording in the pages of Fanfare. It impressed him greatly.

However, his review left many unanswered questions, though it's impossible to fault him for this, of course. Info was sketchy and Myto apparently was little help.

What transpired after that Fanfare review is eye-opening, however. Seems Mr. Youngren's dilemma sparked the intrest of a few fans of the recording and soon info started trickling in to the mag in the form of reader correspondence. Youngren subsequently related what readers had written in the "Critics' Corner" portion of the mag. This went on for a few months spanning three issues.

The correspondence is enlightening enough so rather than summarize it all I offer it here verbatim (along with a Youngren gaff, as well as slightly edited for clarity) so that those of us who are interested are able to draw some conclusions of our own.


Fanfare, Volume 16, No. 6 - July/August, 1993.

Mr. Youngren writes:

"I have recently received partial answers to questions that puzzled me in two reviews written for this journal.

The first question concerns the splendid Die Meistersinger, conducted by Rafael Kubelik and issued by Myto, that I reviewed in Fanfare 16:4.

As I said in my review, the words 'Registrazione dal vivo' on the jewel box led me to expect a broadcast of a stage performance. But then there were no stage or audience noises, and the stereo sound was simply too good. Nor could it have been taken down from an FM tuner since there was no radio noise. I thus concluded: 'Plainly, what we have here is an in-house, direct-line tape of either a broadcast or what was intended to be a commercially recorded studio Meistersinger but for some reason never made it.'

I suppose I mentioned the possibility of its being an unissued commercial studio performance second because that seemed the more remote of the two possibilities. But it apparently turns out to be the true one - or, rather, they both turn out to be true. My Fanfare colleague Marc Mandel has very kindly sent me a clipping from Classical Express, which I gather is a sort of newsletter distributed by London's Music Discount Centre. Reviewing the Kubelik Meistersinger, the excellent critic Michael Tanner writes: 'In 1967 Bavarian Radio recorded Die Meistersinger and DG committed it to LP; a very limited number of sets were pressed, and a very celebrated baritone with aspiration to singing Hans Sachs managed to stop things there.' Wow!

I name no names, I make no accusations. But consider for a moment who fits the description. Who was, in 1967, (1) 'a very celebrated baritone' who had (2) 'aspirations to singing Hans Sachs,' and was also (3) an important DG recording artist who would thus (4) have had enough clout to force the suppression of a superb recording that must already have cost the company [Youngren mistakenly assumes the recording is DG's, here - more on that below] hundreds of thousands of dollars? [Snip]"


Fanfare, Volume 17, No.3 - January/February 1994.

"I have one more - perhaps final - note concerning the splendid 1967 Kubelik Meistersinger that I reviewed in Fanfare 16:4. As I said in a 'Critics' Corner' entry in Fanfare 16:6, my colleague Marc Mandel sent me a review of the recording from the English journal Classical Express in which the critic Michael Tanner had written: 'In 1967 Bavarian Radio recorded Die Meistersinger and DG committed it to LP; a very limited number of sets were pressed, and a very celebrated baritone with aspiration to singing Sachs managed to stop things there.'

What puzzled me about this story was how any baritone, celebrated or otherwise, could (as I put it) 'have had enough clout to force the suppression of a superb recording that must already have cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars.' But my puzzlement was all my own fault: I had not paid careful enough attention to Tanner's remarks.

Recently Mr. Michael Walker, of Harrow, Middlesex, sent me a fuller version of the same tale. Mr Walker writes as follows:

      'Thomas Hemsley (the Beckmesser)...remarked that the recording was set up and made by Bavarian Radio in Munich during October 1967 in order to commemorate the centenary of the opera's premiere in 1868. Seven days were originally set aside for the project but such was the ease and speed with which the whole opera was recorded that the sessions took just four days... Initially DG expressed definite interest in wishing to release the opera for commercial sale. However, a potential rival Hans Sachs then told the company he wished to record the work at a future date. Hemsley stated that the company concerned were somewhat shame-faced by their backdown, so much so that all the members of the cast were presented with a specially pressed-up set.'

The greater fullness of Mr. Walker's account caused me to see what I had missed in Tanner's [account]: that the original instigator of the recording was not DG but rather Bavarian Radio. [Snip] There was no question of DG losing 'hundreds of thousands of dollars' or, indeed, any previously invested capital. The recording would have been paid for by Bavarian Radio, i.e., by Bavarian state funds. DG saw a good opportunity, moved in, and then were called off by their 'celebrated baritone'."


Fanfare, Volume 17, No. 4 - March/April 1994.

"A recent letter, from a correspondent who is an opera conductor and thus has many connections in the opera world, casts further light on the question of why the splendid 1967 Kubelik Meistersinger that I reviewed in Fanfare 16:4 had never been previously released.

After expressing doubts that the 'celebrated baritone' who is usually held responsible for blocking the planned DG issue of this Meistersinger would have done such a thing - 'unpleasant character as he is' - my correspondent told a quite different story. He was told by Thomas Stewart, the Sachs of the performance, that an elderly DG executive, 'in his mentality an absolute Nazi,' had been the one who blocked the release. This man objected to a major German national opera being issued on the biggest German label in a performance conducted by a Czech and featuring singers from Hungary, England, and the United States.

Certainly this makes still more sense that the various preceding accounts I have received. Any further corrections or additions?"

[PSmith08]

What an interesting story, and a story that sheds some light on the Parsifal recording's history. I'm not sure which explanation makes the most sense, as I don't have a good feel how Meistersinger fits into the cultural pantheon of Germany (as defined by the cultural élite, as opposed to most Germans). The problem, though, as I see it, with the "primary" explanation is the chronology. Kubelík's recording was made and withheld in 1967 (or, given the October date, 1968); Fischer-Dieskau didn't record the rôle until 1976 under Jochum. I understand the costs associated with making and marketing records, to say nothing of recording them, makes it untenable to turn out one after another, but nine years? That seems like a pretty good non-compete time period, especially with the star power in the later record. I don't know. It seems complicated and slightly mysterious. Obviously, Kubelík wasn't too interested in clearing things up, which makes it more of a mystery - as he was one of the few people in a position to do so.

Such strange goings on.

[MishaK]

Obviously, Kubelík wasn't too interested in clearing things up, which makes it more of a mystery - as he was one of the few people in a position to do so.

Or maybe he wasn't. After the experience of how internal politics killed his career in Chicago, he quite possibly didn't want to get involved in any way that could jeopardize his long-term relationship with either his orchestra (which by all accounts he loved very dearly) or his record company.

[PSmith08]

Or maybe he wasn't. After the experience of how internal politics killed his career in Chicago, he quite possibly didn't want to get involved in any way that could jeopardize his long-term relationship with either his orchestra (which by all accounts he loved very dearly) or his record company.

Indeed. His seeming silence on the matter seems to indicate a willingness to let sleeping dogs lie, for whatever reason.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

'Mysterious' is a good word for it (PSmith's above reference).

Searching for some clarity I went to ClassicToday hoping for some insight.

Jed Distler in his ClassicsToday review of the (second??) Myto release credits 'contractual problems' as the source for the delay/suppression/cancellation.

Doesn't help much...

However, befitting the muddled history of this recording Distler in his review makes a gaff when he credits Calig as the first to issue this recording. That's incorrect. Myto was the first.

Seems either the original Myto issue came really late to ClassicsToday or Myto simply reissued it again after all these years, possibly in concurrence with Calig, who came on the scene only later (but before Arts Music).

And, lo, Hurwitz propagates Distler's gaff in his review of the Arts Music issue...!

Some hoo-doo involved in this recording!

[knight66]

Don, Thanks for all of the info. It is suggested that DFD would not have been involved due to the dates being wide apart. I seem to recall that DFD had distinct doubts about singing the role and somewhere I read that he was prepared to record it, but not to perform it on stage. The indecision went on for some time and then there was a delay simply because of schedules.

I am not determined to paint DFD as the villain. We are all a victim of what we are told, or what we read, unless we were there. However, there are various tales of artists blocking other artists and of them taking an inordinate time to become committed to a project.

DFD did work with Kubelik, I don't know if any joint engagements post-date this issue, but then, despite what goes on behind the scenes, people often just have to get on with things.

Mike

[M forever]

What are you babbling about, M?  Who has said anything about Nazis except you?  Are you going into Austro-Prussian paranoiac overdrive or something?  I was talking purely about the logic behind the merchandising of classical music, not the relative merits of anyone.  And, it's pretty clear that EMI found itself with one Mahler set too many to sell and they felt that Rattle and Tennstedt would be more profitable so the Bertini set was kept back for years.

The babbling is all on your side. And *you* did just a day or two ago inform us that "Karajan was clearly in bed with Hitler", showing that you are as uninformed about the facts there as you are here. Based on your obvious biases and on your general tendency to make grandiose statements based on just superficial information, as we have seen in the recent HIP thread, your nonsense about Karajan and Hitler, and again here, it is no surprise at all that you immediately jumped to the conclusion that it must somehow be Karajan's fault that a Kubelik recording did not get released. That is obviously total nonsense and completely contradicted by the hard facts which show that Kubelik was one of DG's most favored recording artists in general.

Just like your statement that EMI obviously "shelved" Bertini's Mahler cycle was completely wrong, too, as you admitted in the meantime, not without some massive and rather comical attempts to backpedal and find other explanations for the evil conspiracy against Bertini. The obvious question why they recorded a complete Mahler cycle with him then in the first place remains completely unanswered, of course.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that I was discussing anything other than money.  And you should apologize for pulling the nazi card out of your sleeve when it wasn't even in the deck.

Why should I apologize for that? It is totally obvious that that is what is the basis for your biases against Karajan, as the idiotic (and untrue) stuff you said about him and Hitler clearly showed, really is. And look, the "Nazi wildcard" is all over the place anyway, as it is soooooo convenient to explain literally everything connected to German and Austrian people:

After expressing doubts that the 'celebrated baritone' who is usually held responsible for blocking the planned DG issue of this Meistersinger would have done such a thing - 'unpleasant character as he is' - my correspondent told a quite different story. He was told by Thomas Stewart, the Sachs of the performance, that an elderly DG executive, 'in his mentality an absolute Nazi,' had been the one who blocked the release. This man objected to a major German national opera being issued on the biggest German label in a performance conducted by a Czech and featuring singers from Hungary, England, and the United States.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Yes, that makes total sense, especially because the same Nazi label had that same Czech conductor make tons of recordings for them, including a lot of major German repertoire. Didn't that very same Mr Stewart also sing Wotan, the highest of Germanic gods, in the Ring, the most majorly Germanic opera repertoire there is, for the same label at the same time? Or was that suddenly OK then with the Nazi executives because that old Nazi Karajan, Hitler's best friend, conducted? Yes, that must be it   

Man, there is so much bullshit flying around here, I need to get an umbrella.

And you might as well admit that Karajan was a genius at self-promotion.

Why sould I "admit" that? I never said something to the contrary. I know that, but I don't care, unlike you who seems to be very fascinated with these things. Hmmmmm...I wonder why...maybe because you yourself are so impressed with superficial clichés and all that stuff?
Nobody ever denied that Karajan hyped himself and was hyped, so what? He was an extremely competent conductor, and those times wanted such superstars, he was one of the few people who fit that role.
As did Bernstein, who was no less hyped and, in his very different style, hyped himself just as intensely as Karajan did. I think there are picture of him in a bathing suit, too. I have even seen him myself in swimming trunks, conducting with a cigarette during rehearsals at the Schleswig-Holstein Musik Festival. What dos all that have to do with the artistic content? For me, nothing. For you, who is so fascinated by such things, it seems to be veeeeery important.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Yes, that makes total sense, especially because the same Nazi label had that same Czech conductor make tons of recordings for them, including a lot of major German repertoire. Didn't that very same Mr Stewart also sing Wotan, the highest of Germanic gods, in the Ring, the most majorly Germanic opera repertoire there is, for the same label at the same time? Or was that suddenly OK then with the Nazi executives because that old Nazi Karajan, Hitler's best friend, conducted? Yes, that must be it   

I had a feeling you'd be unhappy with that. But I figured I'd recount it anyway.

I've never known Youngren to have a bone to pick - with anybody. Pretty fair guy from all I've read from him - which is about a decade's worth of thoughtful Wagner reviews for Fanfare.

Never known him to sling mud.

So should he have related this story? Tough to say. The point of the correspondence was to get to the bottom of the matter, so any info, no matter how fantastical/controversial, might in the long run be of ultimate service to the matter. 

Anyway, whether or not anyone agrees with the story I simply felt obliged to be true to the letter of Youngren's correspondence regarding this matter.

BTW, this story is thirteen years old. In the interim more might have been fleshed out (or refuted). I know I've read more about it all but can't remember where...or what.

Anyone have any updated information that could shed some light on this matter? I'm all ears...

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Don, Thanks for all of the info. It is suggested that DFD would not have been involved due to the dates being wide apart. I seem to recall that DFD had distinct doubts about singing the role and somewhere I read that he was prepared to record it, but not to perform it on stage. The indecision went on for some time and then there was a delay simply because of schedules.

I am not determined to paint DFD as the villain. We are all a victim of what we are told, or what we read, unless we were there. However, there are various tales of artists blocking other artists and of them taking an inordinate time to become committed to a project.

DFD did work with Kubelik, I don't know if any joint engagements post-date this issue, but then, despite what goes on behind the scenes, people often just have to get on with things.

Mike

You're welcome, Mike!

Sadly, my poor typing skills prevented me from a speedy posting of all that...but it was worth it. Got me exercise in!

What a wonderful performance, nonetheless.

Yes, it seems unthinkable a mere performer - even one of DFD's stature - could put the stops on such a valuable project.

Obviously somebody somewhere had ideas about making a profit on the whole thing 'else why go through with the project? Could it be politics somewhere high up the food chain...?

Anyway, we may never know the truth but it's an interesting tale to kick around!

[M forever]

I had a feeling you'd be unhappy with that. But I figured I'd recount it anyway.

I've never known Youngren to have a bone to pick - with anybody. Pretty fair guy from all I've read from him - which is about a decade's worth of thoughtful Wagner reviews for Fanfare.

Never known him to sling mud.

So should he have related this story? Tough to say. The point of the correspondence was to get to the bottom of the matter, so any info, no matter how fantastical/controversial, might in the long run be of ultimate service to the matter. 

Anyway, whether or not anyone agrees with the story I simply felt obliged to be true to the letter of Youngren's correspondence regarding this matter.

I agree. As obviously BS the story told by Mr Stewart is, Mr Youngren only wanted to reproduce the information that came to him without "filtering" it. His comment that "certainly this makes still more sense that the various preceding accounts I have received" still makes him look like an idiot, but on the other hand, we know how fashionable and easy it is to explain lots of things with the Nazi wildcard or other unreflected, uninformed nonsense. Apparently, stuff like that simply still looks good to a lot of people.

If we ever get to know the truth, I wouldn't be surprised if it was something totally unspectacular, no evil baritone or sinister Obersturmbannführer intriguing in the background. More likely, complicated and boring, hard to understand contractual complications or stuff like that.

Besides, I have no other information about this, but I find it extremely unlikely that DFD had that much influence with DG, even though he was a "big star". Even Karajan didn't have that much influence there. Sure, he was their biggest selling artist by far, but that doesn't mean he "owned" them. Or does anyone think Karajan was overjoyed that DG signed Bernstein, maybe the only other conductor equaling him in popularity and commercial appeal? Probably not. Yet DG did, no doubt partially because it signaled to Karajan that they didn't depend exclusively on him, and I am sure he was aware of hat. There was a lot of political stuff going on. You do this project for us, then we do that for you. DG invested a shitload of money into Karajan's Ring because they were anxious to get a rival set for Decca's sensationally successful (for "classical" music) Solti Ring, and Karajan was the only one who could give them that. At the same time, he needed someone to pay for all the rehearsals because it was basically a private project for Salzburg. So that worked out well for both sides. And that's how things work, even in the "serious music" business. No evil baritones and old Nazis. They had completely different agendas.

[Bonehelm]

Now Rafael Kubelík has entered my private Pantheon of preferred Mahler conductors - joining only Bruno Walter and Bernhard Haitink (and Willem Mengelberg, though there is only the complete recording of the 4th - which is still a thing of eternal beauty nevertheless) - I'd like some feedback on Kubelík's Mahler recordings.

Are the live recordings on Audite to be preferred in each case? (The 4th is lacking I believe)
Which symphonies are particularly successful?

Thanks!

Q

Kubelik's M1 is obviously particularly successful. It isn't heavy-handed like Bernstein or Solti, but brisk and swift in tempi. It really makes that 1st movement much livelier. The BRSO is in top-form too, apparent in the superb brass and string playing in the finale. Especially the trumpets, they are really forward, packing a fierce punch. The sonics might be a little dry for some people though, since it's no modern recording (1969 DG) but it isn't all that bad either. Just be aware that Kubelik's M1 is the exact opposite of the larger-than-life, overwhelming Mahler of Bernstein's.

[Anne]

I offered this advice to another member (who shall, unless s/he specifically tells me otherwise, remain anonymous): the choices for Parsifal come down to two recordings. Either Hans Knappertsbusch's 1962 Bayreuth recording on Philips or Rafael Kubelík's 1980 recording on Arts Archive, and it's a matter of taste between them. To my ears, it is really that simple. Kubelík's recording, if I have my story straight, was shelved by Deutsche Grammophon. If you look at the dates, this record should have come out at roughly the same time as Herbert von Karajan's. The assertion has been made that Kubelík's was mothballed in favor of the more-famous conductor's. I don't offer any sort of confirmation or denial.

In any event, Kubelík's set is probably the best post-Knappertsbusch set you could want. The singers are uniformly excellent (with James King and Kurt Moll being standouts in this recording), and the BRSO forces play marvelously. This is just good, idiomatic Wagner: Kubelík doesn't rush things (taking marginally more time than even Knappertsbusch), but things don't seem slow. Orchestrally, I'd say that Kubelík's recording bests Thielemann's, which really revels in the score itself. This recording, had it been released at the time, probably would have been the the set for the 1980s and 1990s. In fact, it would probably be in its second or third incarnation by now. 

PSmith08 or Anyone Else,

Is the Kubelik Parsifal still available on the Arts Archive label (I've never heard of this label before) and if so, does anyone have the URL?  Or where can I purchase Kubelik's Parsifal?  I'd be very grateful for your reply.

I have the Kubelik Meistersinger and agree it merits all the praise it's been given.

[Novi]

PSmith08 or Anyone Else,

Is the Kubelik Parsifal still available on the Arts Archive label (I've never heard of this label before) and if so, does anyone have the URL?  Or where can I purchase Kubelik's Parsifal?  I'd be very grateful for your reply.

I have the Kubelik Meistersinger and agree it merits all the praise it's been given.

Anne, this is the one I have .

[Anne]

Anne, this is the one I have .

N,

Thank you very much!  I thought it had to come from the Arts Archive site.  Much appreciated!  Thank you again.