Bruckner's 4th (Mahler arrangement and reorchestration)

[withsnow]

I read on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._4_(Bruckner) that there is an arrangement of the 1888 version by Gustav Mahler.Since they are both my favorite composers i am interested,does anybody heard this version and what are your opinions?
Also,is it worth to buy it (not as a substitute for other versions but as alternative).It very surprised me that is only one recording exist.Also,it surprised me that there is a very little information aviable on the internet.And also i am wondering what are the Mahlers motives was to do that.

P.S. I am new on this forum(also in listening classical music),and i must say,it is a nice "place"(lot of useful information).

[Superhorn]

  This sounds very interesting. I've never heard of a recording of the Mahler adaption. I have the feeling that it may contain cuts, though,like the
Joseph Schalk version of the fifth, which has a large cut in the finale.
This has recently been recorded by Leon Botstein with the LPO, and there is a much older version with Knappertsbusch and the VPO on Decca,
which I believe is not currently available. Joseph Schalk was a Bruckner pupil and brother of the once famous conductor Franz Schalk.

[Drasko]

Schalk is a boyscout compared to Mahler. Mahler cuts Bruckner 4th to under 50 minutes. Haven't listened to that version in years but ircc he lops off entire return of scherzo proper for instance, it's also heavily re-orchestrated but I can't recall the details right now.
Fascinating butchery. It almost works on its own conditions.

The only recording of it is unfortunately very difficult to find, Rozhdestvensky conducting his Ministry of Culture Orchestra. It was on Icone but it is heavily oop, maybe on Venezia from Japan is still available.

withsnow, ako si stvarno iz Beograda mogu da ti narezem disk, imam na CDu ovaj snimak koji sam pomenuo u prethodnom paragrafu.

[jochanaan]

Well, Mahler did tend to rewrite most of the pieces he conducted.  He was trained in an age where "textual fidelity" really didn't exist.  I've heard his reworking of Schumann's First (conducted by Erich Leinsdorf, IIRC), and it's an interesting "alternate take" if you're interested in such things.

[MishaK]

Well, Mahler did tend to rewrite most of the pieces he conducted.  He was trained in an age where "textual fidelity" really didn't exist.  I've heard his reworking of Schumann's First (conducted by Erich Leinsdorf, IIRC), and it's an interesting "alternate take" if you're interested in such things.

Chailly has recorded the whole Schumann (Mahler, ed.) cycle with Leipzig for Decca. Heard them do No.1, I think a year or two ago live. Interesting, but I prefer the original.

[david johnson]

hi, withsnow! 

dj

[listener]

Chailly has recorded the whole Schumann (Mahler, ed.) cycle with Leipzig for Decca. Heard them do No.1, I think a year or two ago live. Interesting, but I prefer the original.

amazon.ca has the 2-disc set  for $14.99.   I think the single discs cost more each (but the set does not have overture fillers, does have notes on the revisions).

[imperfection]

So how different are the original Schumann symphonies from the Mahlerized ones? I've heard the latter many, many times, but I've never actually touched the originals...

[jochanaan]

So how different are the original Schumann symphonies from the Mahlerized ones? I've heard the latter many, many times, but I've never actually touched the originals...

The musical structure, themes and overall forms emerge intact, but lots of details get reworked.

[jlaurson]

Chailly has recorded the whole Schumann (Mahler, ed.) cycle with Leipzig for Decca. Heard them do No.1, I think a year or two ago live. Interesting, but I prefer the original.

Anyone interested in reading a bit more about that recording & Mahler's 'fiddling', this might be of peripheral interest:

http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=322
Schumann, Incompetent Genius?

I know of Bruckner's 3rd having been arranged for piano by Mahler:


Mahler-Bruckner
Sy.3
Trenker-Seidl


And of course there are Schoenberg-glee-club transcriptions of Mahler's 4th. But a Mahler orchestration of Bruckner's Fourth I have yet to hear about or encounter.

[listener]

Mahler's 4th for chamber orchestra, transcr. Mahler ?

She wants to record the Bach violin concertos, with Salerno-Sonnenberg herself as soloist - "my absolutely favorite pieces in the world to play." She wants to program Mahler (a chamber version of the Symphony No. 4) and commission more new work.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/19/DDF01ALD2G.DTL#ixzz0XRUJfuRd

[Lilas Pastia]

I have that Mahler 'arrangement' of the Bruckner 4th. It's of course no replacement for the original, but it's very impressive in its own right. There's nothing remotely mahlerian about it. GM reorchestrated and rearranged Bruckner's music. If you can find it I certainly recommend it. Some would say it's a travesty, but I don't think so - at least not more than Schoenberg's ludicrous arrangement of Grahms' op. 34 quintet, which has gained wide acceptance.

[imperfection]

I have that Mahler 'arrangement' of the Bruckner 4th. It's of course no replacement for the original, but it's very impressive in its own right. There's nothing remotely mahlerian about it. GM reorchestrated and rearranged Bruckner's music. If you can find it I certainly recommend it. Some would say it's a travesty, but I don't think so - at least not more than Schoenberg's ludicrous arrangement of Grahms' op. 34 quintet, which has gained wide acceptance.

Grahms?