The sort of music you dislike

[Sergeant Rock]

That first one almost made me throw up

An allergic reaction to Bob Dylan's song or Jason's take on it? 

See, it just seems strange to me, not finding any really avant-garde stuff in these genres- and I mean, experimental, often being atonal.

Actually, if you go back further in time, to country's roots, the music can sound really weird, quite dissonant. The close harmonies are really dfficult to listen to for most people. If you get an opportunity to listen to some of the stuff that Harry Smith recorded in Appalachia and the South in the 20s and 30s, preserved by the Smithsonian as the Anthology of American Fok Music, you might hear what you're looking for. Music and performances not deliberately meant to be experimental or atonal...but just the way the music was. The commercialization of folk and country smoothed out the rough edges.

I don't know... I can guess why, but I'd hate to say it, and there's probably no way of proving whether my guess is right on or not.

What's your theory?

Sarge

[greg]

An allergic reaction to Bob Dylan's song or Jason's take on it? 

Actually, if you go back further in time, to country's roots, the music can sound really weird, quite dissonant. The close harmonies are really dfficult to listen to for most people. If you get an opportunity to listen to some of the stuff that Harry Smith recorded in Appalachia and the South in the 20s and 30s, preserved by the Smithsonian as the Anthology of American Fok Music, you might hear what you're looking for. Music and performances not deliberately meant to be experimental or atonal...but just the way the music was. The commercialization of folk and country smoothed out the rough edges.

What's your theory?

Sarge

I'd like to listen, but I can't find it anywhere on the internet. 
(oh yeah, as a side note, i have someone in my family that was a professional bluegrass musician in the 20s or so, and have a CD).

Well, my theory is that intelligence might be some sort of factor, culturally speaking. But going into detail with this probably wouldn't work well...

[starrynight]

I dislike empty and hollow music.  I want to feel through the music and, also importantly, the performance that the music isn't just some formulaic exercise or just some clumsy attempt to sound important or profound.  Of course you can get empty and shallow music in any period.  Some earlier baroque or classical music can sometimes feel formulaic or uninventive.  Romantic era music can sometimes be a load of huffing and puffing signifying nothing, some pseudo- profound music that goes on way too long with too much filler.  Both of these traits might sometimes be found in modern music too. 

[Sergeant Rock]

I dislike empty and hollow music.  I want to feel through the music and, also importantly, the performance that the music isn't just some formulaic exercise or just some clumsy attempt to sound important or profound.  Of course you can get empty and shallow music in any period.  Some earlier baroque or classical music can sometimes feel formulaic or uninventive.  Romantic era music can sometimes be a load of huffing and puffing signifying nothing, some pseudo- profound music that goes on way too long with too much filler.  Both of these traits might sometimes be found in modern music too. Which leads me to assume that no one is: it's all a matter of personality, environment, and taste (I imagine JdP just went into convulsions).

Perhaps I'm misjudging you but after years haunting classical forums, I usually bristle when someone says of certain Romantic composers, known for lengthy works, that their music is "a load of huffing and puffing signifying nothing, some pseudo- profound music that goes on way too long with too much filler."  I can probably guess which composers turn you off. I could be wrong, of course. Forgive me if I am 

What I've discovered is, One person's bombastic, pseudo-profound music is another person's idea of pure joy and enlightenment. Despite what a few here assert, there is no way to scientifically prove who's right. Which leads me to assume it's all a matter of personality, environment, and taste (I imagine JdP just went into convulsions).

Sarge

[Scarpia]

I dislike empty and hollow music.  I want to feel through the music and, also importantly, the performance that the music isn't just some formulaic exercise or just some clumsy attempt to sound important or profound.  Of course you can get empty and shallow music in any period.  Some earlier baroque or classical music can sometimes feel formulaic or uninventive.  Romantic era music can sometimes be a load of huffing and puffing signifying nothing, some pseudo- profound music that goes on way too long with too much filler.  Both of these traits might sometimes be found in modern music too.

Wow, this post is mostly a formulaic exercise, and a clumsy attempt to sound important or profound, complete with huffing and puffing signifying nothing, or at least very little.  What exquisite irony, you did it on purpose, I presume?

What you have said is, if I may simplify a bit, "I don't like music I don't like."   

[Popov]

Honestly I can't think of anything. I have rarely failed to find some appeal in classical music.

Well here is an exception, I found Pärt's Symphony No. 4 boooooring. Wait, Tavener's The Veil of the Temple was even worse. Far worse xP

[starrynight]

Wow, this post is mostly a formulaic exercise, and a clumsy attempt to sound important or profound, complete with huffing and puffing signifying nothing, or at least very little.  What exquisite irony, you did it on purpose, I presume?

What you have said is, if I may simplify a bit, "I don't like music I don't like."   

This thread is about the sort music that you don't like, so that's what I was replying to.  I suppose I could do the usual thing and just list some composers I haven't connected so much with so far, but I would say that would be a far more empty thing to do.  Indeed I would say there isn't any composer I would write off completely and that most composers I would like something from anyway.

Perhaps you like all music, maybe you see something good in everything?  I know some do look at things that way, I can't I'm too critical.  As long as someone can have an understanding of a style which a piece is wrote in I don't see why it should immune from criticism if someone feels it has weak patches in it.  As I made clear though the performer has to play their role as well in conveying it.

But maybe all this is formulaic to you and maybe you think it's just platitudes and means nothing.  That's a shame because it informs how I listen to music guides what I wish to keep.  But then you probably have your own way of evaluating music (if you do that) anyway.   

[Scarpia]

This thread is about the sort music that you don't like, so that's what I was replying to.  I suppose I could do the usual thing and just list some composers I haven't connected so much with so far, but I would say that would be a far more empty thing to do.  Indeed I would say there isn't any composer I would write off completely and that most composers I would like something from anyway.

Perhaps you like all music, maybe you see something good in everything?  I know some do look at things that way, I can't I'm too critical.  As long as someone can have an understanding of a style which a piece is wrote in I don't see why it should immune from criticism if someone feels it has weak patches in it.  As I made clear though the performer has to play their role as well in conveying it.

But maybe all this is formulaic to you and maybe you think it's just platitudes and means nothing.  That's a shame because it informs how I listen to music guides what I wish to keep.  But then you probably have your own way of evaluating music (if you do that) anyway.   

What you said, in effect you don't like music which is bad, which is "empty", "hollow", "clumsy," "formulaic," "goes on too long."   Do you honestly think people who like this same music would say that they like music which is "empty," "hollow," "clumsy," "formulaic" and "goes on too long?"  No.  Everyone on the plant earth dislikes music that is empty, hollow, clumsy, formulaic and goes on too long."   That is why I find your statement utterly devoid of content.  If you said "I don't like music that is harmonically simple, relentlessly contrapuntal, flamboyantly orchestrated," for example, you would have said something, because someone could legitimately say, "well, I like flamboyant orchestration, lots of counterpoint, or harmonic simplicity."

[starrynight]

What you said, in effect you don't like music which is bad, which is "empty", "hollow", "clumsy," "formulaic," "goes on too long."   Do you honestly think people who like this same music would say that they like music which is "empty," "hollow," "clumsy," "formulaic" and "goes on too long?"  No.  Everyone on the plant earth dislikes music that is empty, hollow, clumsy, formulaic and goes on too long."   That is why I find your statement utterly devoid of content.  If you said "I don't like music that is harmonically simple, relentlessly contrapuntal, flamboyantly orchestrated," for example, you would have said something, because someone could legitimately say, "well, I like flamboyant orchestration, lots of counterpoint, or harmonic simplicity."

But I try and like something from all kinds of styles, I don't want to limit myself.

[Teresa]

What (starrynight) said, in effect you don't like music which is bad, which is "empty", "hollow", "clumsy," "formulaic," "goes on too long."   Do you honestly think people who like this same music would say that they like music which is "empty," "hollow," "clumsy," "formulaic" and "goes on too long?"   

Remember one person's boring is another's sublime   

What is "empty", "hollow", "clumsy," "formulaic," "goes on too long" for one listener is NOT "empty", "hollow", "clumsy," "formulaic," "goes on too long" for all listeners. 

Indeed if one does not like the music it "goes on too long" and if one loves the music it is likely "too short".  All of these observations depends on one's relationship to the music and this varies GREATLY from one listener to another. 

So what is empty or hollow to one listener is full and with great meaning to another listener.  If someone does not like freestyle  musical forms they may call them clumsy but to someone who loves freestyle they are not clumsy.

And music only sounds formalistic if one does not like the formula.  Musical beauty is in the ear of the listener and our ears are all different. 

[starrynight]

I think there are degrees of tolerance for particular styles and some may have more patience with a particular style than others.  Nevertheless I think most would agree that some music can be formulaic or empty and some can be too long or bloated for the musical substance contained within.  Not every work is a masterpiece, I am convinced of that.  I like Haydn's symphonies for example, but not every one is a masterpiece.  Most would agree with me there I think.

[Scarpia]

so true ... queen-size composers fall into this category, Beethoven instantly comes to mind - the one who essentially started this particular tendancy you're referencing. Huge pompous longwinded bloated structures (i.e. symphonies) that aren't really justified or necessary imo. I can think of innumerable composers who say so much more in a fraction of the time, fewer pgs, and with fewer instruments even.

[Chaszz]

...And as for Schumann, I find his Chamber Music definately on the same level with his piano works and songs!

I happened to hear his Rhenish Symphony today, and IMO it is nothing but a great piece of music.   

[Chaszz]

...In fact I love bombastic LATE Romantic music (see Sgt. Rock's list above). It's the mid-Romantic composers that I'm not crazy about.

I love late Romantic music also, but object to it being called bombastic as an overall descriptor. I think the less strident, more melodic music of this period is among the literature's greatest glories. E.g., Wagner: The Prize Song and the vocal quintet from Meistersinger, the Spring duet at the end of Act 1 of Walkure, the Siegfried Idyll, the Good Friday music from Parsifal, the Forest Murmurs from Siegfried. Where can one find bliss like this again? These pieces for me outweigh his louder contributions, with a few exceptions like Siegfried's Rhine Journey. Sure, he should have composed more of these softer ones, but after all he was a madman, what can you expect of a nut like this. This business about softer strains applies also to Strauss and to Brahms' slow movements. I cannot conceive of life without these precious MELODIC jewels of late Romanticism. 

Modification, ten minutes later: I was reading thru this thread from the beginning tonight and herein reacted to the same 'bombastic' comment I had replied to (and forgotten replying to) four pages ago. Sorry for the duplicate thoughts. At my age, one begins to forget whether or not one brushed one's teeth five minutes ago, let alone posted a comment several weeks ago. 

[starrynight]

so true ... queen-size composers fall into this category, Beethoven instantly comes to mind - the one who essentially started this particular tendancy you're referencing. Huge pompous longwinded bloated structures (i.e. symphonies) that aren't really justified or necessary imo. I can think of innumerable composers who say so much more in a fraction of the time, fewer pgs, and with fewer instruments even.

That is actually precisely what I was thinking, it's like you're reading my mind.  As great as Beethoven was (a top 3 composer for most people) one influence which wasn't so good was his tendency, particularly at the end of his life, to push some structures to their limit.  The 9th symphony with 4 enormous movements was a particular influence on this.  Wagner himself said the brilliant first movement was a symphony in itself.  By the end of the romantic period this concept was had been exploited perhaps too much, a reaction stylistically had to come and it did.  I'm sure Beethoven, a classicist at heart, wouldn't have been so happy at what had happened.  Big structures can sometimes work but naturally most of the time composers just don't have the store of ideas to fill it all out.   

[starrynight]

I love the first two movements of the Eroica but I'm not sure about the second half of it really living up to that start.

[jowcol]

I love the first two movements of the Eroica but I'm not sure about the second half of it really living up to that start.

Word.   

I'm not the biggest Beethoven Fan, but the first two movements of the Eroica are my favorite parts of any of his symphonies, but I don't feel the need to listen to the 2nd half.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I love the first two movements of the Eroica but I'm not sure about the second half of it really living up to that start.

There are a few great symphonies which suffer from this structural imbalance: the first two mvts. are so overwhelming that they overshadow the next two (which are good in their own right). The Eroica is one such; Bruckner 7 and Shostakovich 10 are two others.

[Renfield]

There are a few great symphonies which suffer from this structural imbalance: the first two mvts. are so overwhelming that they overshadow the next two (which are good in their own right). The Eroica is one such; Bruckner 7 and Shostakovich 10 are two others.

Interesting assessment.

I would hardly agree for any of the three you bring up, the Bruckner 7th most of all, but interesting nonetheless!

[Grazioso]

Interesting assessment.

I would hardly agree for any of the three you bring up, the Bruckner 7th most of all, but interesting nonetheless!

I have to agree with Velimir on Bruckner 7: the great bulk of the music falls within the lengthy initial two movements, and to me, they're far more interesting and moving than the ones that follow. In fact, as much as I enjoy Bruckner, I find his symphonies generally tend towards that sort of unevenness: I find all the very literal, formulaic repetition in his scherzi to be tedious, and his finales rarely gel for me. Just give me the opening and the adagio, and I'm happy--or the "whole" of the perfectly balanced tripartite 9th