Comparing Composers

[JoshLilly]

Mozart is one of the world's very greatest composers.  Period.  Not any question of opinion, or of "freedom of thought" (gawd, you can be the funny one).  He doesn't become "a bad composer" just because you've taken a dislike to him.  Your dislike, you see, is such a very feeble thing in comparison to Mozart's musical excellence.  Haydn swore that he was the greatest composer he knew;  whose opinion are we going to value: yours, or Haydn's?

Which Haydn? F.J.? Mike? Doesn't matter. Personal tastes are all equally valuable in the eyes of Me. And really, who else's eyes matter? Unless I - that is to say, me - am in a taxi, or a bus. Or an airplane. But other than those obvious exceptions.

[karlhenning]

Which Haydn? F.J.? Mike?

(Not that you should have had to, but) you've not done much reading about Mozart and his contemporaries, then.

[(poco) Sforzando]

If you do not need my approval, then why is my opinion so important to you that you keep harping on it?  Especially you know I do not want to give you a play by play.  Trust yourself and your feelings.  All I have tried to say is anyones low opinion of a composers compositional skills should have no effect on anyone enjoying the music they love.  Why people are having such a hard time with this simple concept I do not know.

I told you I don't give a rat's ass about your opinion. I simply enjoy seeing you paint yourself into a corner. As for "Especially you know I do not want to give you a play by play," may I remind you that ten minutes ago, it was "I have given complete details, way more than I should have."

[(poco) Sforzando]

Which Haydn? F.J.? Mike?

You know that answer perfectly well. If Haydn, it's Josef; if Bach, it's Johann Sebastian; if Wagner, it's Richard, not Siegfried. To insist on a more precise identification of the most likely case is to be pedantic. When Boris Tchaikovsky is meant, the full name is given; otherwise everyone assumes you're talking about the composer of Swan Lake.

[karlhenning]

I told you I don't give a rat's ass about your opinion. I simply enjoy seeing you paint yourself into a corner. As for "Especially you know I do not want to give you a play by play," may I remind you that ten minutes ago, it was "I have given complete details, way more than I should have."

Yes, the real question is why Teresa has her knickers so torqued over the insistence that Mozart is (yuk-nyuk-nyuk) a bad composer!

[Mirror Image]

Only sketches of symphonies and a concerto.  Believe me, if it is granted to me that an orchestra be ready to program such a piece, I should be glad to bring one to completion!  There's been a certain pragmatic undergirding to my work, and largely I have tended to write pieces for which there was an imminent prospect of performance.

I've read your biography and for it's worth I'm impressed. You've been a very busy composer. Hopefully, a commission to write a symphony or concerto will come your way soon.

[karlhenning]

Personal tastes are all equally valuable in the eyes of Me.

That's no great virtue, BTW.

[karlhenning]

I've read your biography and for it's worth I'm impressed. You've been a very busy composer. Hopefully, a commission to write a symphony or concerto will come your way soon.

Thanks!  I find it important to keep at work.  This week I'll have some audio uploaded, if you like.

[Mirror Image]

Thanks!  I find it important to keep at work.  This week I'll have some audio uploaded, if you like.

That would be great. I really enjoy hearing people's creations. I'm sure it's not too late for me, but I would really like to back to college and major in composition. I don't have any musical training, but, hey, neither did Delius!!! Roussel didn't even start composing until his 30s, so it's never too late.

[Teresa]

Exactly. You have nothing to back your assertion that Mozart is "a bad composer," just the trivial factoid that, gosh, you don't like any of it. La di da. Not much of an opinion, is it?

Since you REFUSE to go back and read it for yourself, here is the excerpt from Reply #464 "I only said he was a bad composer and I gave my reasons, such as too repetitious using too many repeats, sickening sweet melody lines with not enough differing melodic material, uninspired and drab harmony lines.  As I clearly stated these are my personal opinions.  Some people may love his repetition, some my love his limited melodic material and consider it sublime or hypnotic."

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY MORE LOW OPINION OF MOZART DISTRESSES YOU SO.  It seems unnatural on your part. 

Yes it is my clear and totally honest opinion!

[karlhenning]

. . . too repetitious using too many repeats . . .

Where, for one example, exactly?

. . . sickening sweet melody lines with not enough differing melodic material . . .

Where, for one example, exactly?

. . . uninspired and drab harmony lines.

Where, for one example, exactly?

None of this is "intricate detail," Teresa.  Full stop.  Let's agree that, even though you believe you have spelled it out, none of these bland generalized remarks of disdain is an "intricate detail."

. . . As I clearly stated these are my personal opinions.

Well, then he could be a great composer, but your personal opinon is . . . that you prefer other music.

Right?

[Teresa]

I told you I don't give a rat's ass about your opinion. I simply enjoy seeing you paint yourself into a corner. As for "Especially you know I do not want to give you a play by play," may I remind you that ten minutes ago, it was "I have given complete details, way more than I should have."

Then don't get so bent out of shape because my opinion is different than yours OK?  Your actions make it sound like you value other peoples opinions more than your own.  If I am able to accomplish anything in this thread I hope that everyone is more secure in their own opinions, so they do not rely on outside confirmation.

I am not able to do a play by play as all 41 compositions by Mozart have been sold and I am not about to buy them again to do a play by play.  No interest and it would be my idea of hell!  And it would make no difference to anyone but me, as it should be.

I gave the complete details in Reply #464

[karlhenning]

I gave the complete details in Reply #464

Nonsense. Now it is clear that, not only do you not know what a fact is, you have no grasp of what complete detail is, either.

You've just got your opinion. La di da.

[Teresa]

Where, for one example, exactly?

Where, for one example, exactly?

Where, for one example, exactly?

None of this is "intricate detail," Teresa.  Full stop.  Let's agree that, even though you believe you have spelled it out, none of these bland generalized remarks of disdain is an "intricate detail."

Well, then he could be a great composer, but your personal opinon is . . . that you prefer other music.

Right?

My comments apply pretty equally to all of his compositions.  However the Symphonies, especially the complete No. 41 with all the repeats which runs 40 minutes.  Most conductors play the edited 25 minute version but even that is too long IMHO.

"sickening sweet melody lines with not enough differing melodic material" and "uninspired and drab harmony lines." applies to all 41 of his compositions I heard.

Greatness in anything is nothing more than personal opinions.  Wishful thinking will never change this.

[karlhenning]

My comments apply pretty equally to all of his compositions.

Thank you for acknowledging that your claim to having spelled out "intricate detail" is bosh; and that you're just blah-blah-ing.

[karlhenning]

Greatness in anything is nothing more than personal opinions.

Gawd, but you're the funny one! You still haven't read Luke's post, have you? Go on: tell the truth, and shame the devil!

[Teresa]

Thank you for acknowledging that your claim to having spelled out "intricate detail" is bosh; and that you're just blah-blah-ing.

No it just means that there are NO exceptions in my ears to his lack of compositional skills, I found all 41 of his compositions unacceptable on every single level that they can be perceived.  There is nothing more to say, when I find a composer that is worse I will gladly let you know.

[Teresa]

Gawd, but you're the funny one! You still haven't read Luke's post, have you? Go on: tell the truth, and shame the devil!

I did read it and I disagree with it.  But since it is his personal opinion I honor it.  However we part company when he tried to present personal opinion as fact. 

[karlhenning]

No it just means that there are NO exceptions in my ears

Ah, the renewed sound of a mind snapping shut! The funniest thing is, you imagine that this is a virtue! High-larious!

[karlhenning]

However we part company when he tried to present personal opinion as fact. 

He never does. Teresa, Luke never, in all the time that I have read his participation in the forum, never presented his personal opinion as fact.

That sort of buffoonery, one leaves to you!