Chez Stravinsky

[Karl Henning]

I just order Michael Stern conducting the Tonhalle Zurich on Denon (Firebird 1945, Agon, Jeu de Cartes). I'm really taking a chance here that the Denon reputation for spectacular recordings, with a (how are they? all I see is Zinman Beethoven/Mahler) decent European orchestra... I hope.

Still waiting in anticipation here.  Sarge seemed to like it, though not necessarily better than the Craft.

[snyprrr]

Well, might as well update... IgorMania2017 has had an extended run. and we are now just going back and looking at works in more depth. I have pretty much run out of purchasing necessities (always the most fun), and am simply trying to stave off getting every release of, say, 'Circus Polka' (one of my new favs).

I never thought I'd be going off with Iggy, but, it's happened. Through him, I see Xenakis, Messaien, and a host of other favs clearer. He eclipses Hindemith, my old fav mid-century go-to, Malipiero, Milhaud, Bloch, Copland,... I hear him in all of it now.

TWO COMPOSERS I can hear their whole output in just a phrase by Iggy: Philip Glass, and Schnittke. I have just been hearing all the Minimalist aspects of IS, and, sure enough, I can hear the genesis of Glass's sound clear as day.


I'm also seeing IS as the charlatan par excellence, the businessman, writing music specific to the need, not from his own gushing fount- every note is important, cause ya gotta get paid, yo!! His whole copyright - revisions- the feeling of "my creations",- he just had that "self worth" that seems such a winning personal way of going about it. Arguing...

Yea, I'm not that boned up, sigh...


I defend my use of the term "charlatan",... not as levied against Cage, it's a different kind,... but, I point to all the charlatans in his works (Pulcinella, the devil., etc)... the wily, the subtle

the serpent was the most subtle beast of the field...


was he "the devil"?  (so nice and polite?)




And, yes, I am NOT taking every note he wrote as "Gospel"... I still find some of his actual process kind of clunky (though, I like it, as it shows he's human), many of his pieces seem to be of no real consequence (piano music), but, of course, that is ON PURPOSE, so, I do admire his balls to write 17th century stuff at the height of the UltraModernism craze (cuz, at that point, that WAS UltraM).


haven't been able to break into any other Composers yet... he does make lots of music go into the toilet for me...



ok, lunchtime

Still waiting in anticipation here.  Sarge seemed to like it, though not necessarily better than the Craft.

The Craft just has this recording where you hear EVERYTHING on the same level, which no other recording offers. I just think (or hear) a lack of "the game afoot"... with Stern, for some reason, I hear the ping=pong effect to a greater degree (the music being thrown about the groups)... the Stern recording is more natural, so, not everything is of equal value- you MUST crank it up some (don't worry, it's a speaker friendly recording).

The Craft is essential for many reasons- I'm going to put Stern in the mix,... and I will give Iwaki credit (it's just that with that Virgin recording, you haaave to turn it up to 10 to hear it correctly) for having a verrry competitive conception...

And, because the Craft and Stern help in the clarity dept., I'm starting to like the MTT a lot more (the spacious recording does make hearing detail somewhat squinty, but, when you realize that you're hearing ambience, and not notes, one can adjust)...

Either way, I'm still sure you will find competitive for your attentions... let me find Sarge's reply and see what he thinks...

[Karl Henning]

Meanwhile, I ought to listen afresh to the Gielen.

[Karl Henning]

The Craft just has this recording where you hear EVERYTHING on the same level, which no other recording offers. I just think (or hear) a lack of "the game afoot"... with Stern, for some reason, I hear the ping=pong effect to a greater degree (the music being thrown about the groups)... the Stern recording is more natural, so, not everything is of equal value- you MUST crank it up some (don't worry, it's a speaker friendly recording).

The Craft is essential for many reasons- I'm going to put Stern in the mix,... and I will give Iwaki credit (it's just that with that Virgin recording, you haaave to turn it up to 10 to hear it correctly) for having a verrry competitive conception...

And, because the Craft and Stern help in the clarity dept., I'm starting to like the MTT a lot more (the spacious recording does make hearing detail somewhat squinty, but, when you realize that you're hearing ambience, and not notes, one can adjust)...

Either way, I'm still sure you will find competitive for your attentions... let me find Sarge's reply and see what he thinks...

I have not yet gone back to the Gielen;  but the Stern is wonderful, a startlingly lyrical reading of a work for which one does not necessarily expect it.  Excellent suggestion, snypsss.

[snyprrr]

I have not yet gone back to the Gielen;  but the Stern is wonderful, a startlingly lyrical reading of a work for which one does not necessarily expect it.  Excellent suggestion, snypsss.

aw shucks , tears of joy, Karl, tears of joy!! ... now, if I can only find someone who can do the same for me in 'Histoire du Soldat'

GO TO NEXT POST

[snyprrr]

Histoire du Soldat (suite)

I'm slowly warming up to 'Soldat', mostly because I think I can feel the Swiss chilly air in its composition, I can smell the desperation of a small orchestra, I sense the diabolical in its scratchiness.

BUT, I'm having trouble finding a recording for "me". All the ones I currently have (Jarvi, Boulez/DG, Maazel) are incidental, they weren't "choices", and, they all seem quite polite.

Boulez highlights the 'Pastoral' with a heavenly clarinet, but his trumpet seems polite. Jarvi's trumpet is more to my liking, slurppy and syrupy. Maazel kind of fits the other two. All are "too professional" for me- I WANT SCRATCHY VIOLIN, I want transcendent trumpet.

I've made a list here of who the contenders might be. What do you think?:

Chailly/Decca

Schwarz/Delos

Howarth/EMI


Craft/St.Luke... I wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be, leather mallets not withstanding
Craft/Philharmonia

Mihaly/Hungaroton... impressed by the rustic quality, which is what I wanted
Pesek/Supraphon... gloriously colorful recording, very nice
Lazarov/Bolshoi... this one gets high marks

random Koch

Norrington/SONY
Jarvi/Chandos
Boulez/DG
Boulez/Erato
Maazel/RCA


Now, to be clear, I'm in no mood for narration, and I already have a Clarinet Trio version I'm happy enough with (Ashkenazy). I'm only interested in the suite with full instrumentation.

As you can see, I am feeling that the Eastern European groups seem to have more fun with it. I'm surprised Kremer hasn't recorded it. BUT, with Boulez and Maazel, I'm still hearing "instruments" instead of "characters".

I MUST have COMPLETE IMMERSION- the players MUST be playing characters... the Boulez is heinously "professional", only speaking to me in the 'Pastoral'- his players just sound too refined. The Jarvi and Maazel players are also equally too... "good"... I sense no deviltry, no soul snatching, no post-Exorcist aura of inevitable sulfuric doom.


IT MAY BE STRAVINSKY'S FAULT? That 'Devil Music' really ISN'T, is it? That triumphal dance doesn't really sound like the devil at all, unless the devil is just being cheeky here.


Anyhow, I hope sooomeone can bring some light here, I'm ready to skin this one.

(There's not as many recordings of the suite as I thought; I think my list is fairly representative)

[snyprrr]

Histoire du Soldat (suite)

I'm slowly warming up to 'Soldat', mostly because I think I can feel the Swiss chilly air in its composition, I can smell the desperation of a small orchestra, I sense the diabolical in its scratchiness.

BUT, I'm having trouble finding a recording for "me". All the ones I currently have (Jarvi, Boulez/DG, Maazel) are incidental, they weren't "choices", and, they all seem quite polite.

Boulez highlights the 'Pastoral' with a heavenly clarinet, but his trumpet seems polite. Jarvi's trumpet is more to my liking, slurppy and syrupy. Maazel kind of fits the other two. All are "too professional" for me- I WANT SCRATCHY VIOLIN, I want transcendent trumpet.

I've made a list here of who the contenders might be. What do you think?:

Chailly/Decca

Schwarz/Delos

Howarth/EMI


Craft/St.Luke... I wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be, leather mallets not withstanding
Craft/Philharmonia

Mihaly/Hungaroton... impressed by the rustic quality, which is what I wanted
Pesek/Supraphon... gloriously colorful recording, very nice
Lazarov/Bolshoi... this one gets high marks

random Koch

Norrington/SONY
Jarvi/Chandos
Boulez/DG
Boulez/Erato
Maazel/RCA


Now, to be clear, I'm in no mood for narration, and I already have a Clarinet Trio version I'm happy enough with (Ashkenazy). I'm only interested in the suite with full instrumentation.

As you can see, I am feeling that the Eastern European groups seem to have more fun with it. I'm surprised Kremer hasn't recorded it. BUT, with Boulez and Maazel, I'm still hearing "instruments" instead of "characters".

I MUST have COMPLETE IMMERSION- the players MUST be playing characters... the Boulez is heinously "professional", only speaking to me in the 'Pastoral'- his players just sound too refined. The Jarvi and Maazel players are also equally too... "good"... I sense no deviltry, no soul snatching, no post-Exorcist aura of inevitable sulfuric doom.


IT MAY BE STRAVINSKY'S FAULT? That 'Devil Music' really ISN'T, is it? That triumphal dance doesn't really sound like the devil at all, unless the devil is just being cheeky here.


Anyhow, I hope sooomeone can bring some light here, I'm ready to skin this one.

(There's not as many recordings of the suite as I thought; I think my list is fairly representative)

Of course, it's been quite difficult to stay away from this Thread, but, we made it a month!


I've been sitting here for a month now, with all the IS CDs artistically arranged around the computer... purchasing has well nigh been plugged- meeeaning- I'm down to different Firebirds and Petrouchkas (currently awaiting Dohnanyi/Vienna, probably the nail s in the coffin there...)...

I've now got more 'Soldats' than I ever could possibly want- though- I have now warmed up to the whole 'Soldat' thing, actually enjoying Norrington/SONY!!! (I know, wtf??)- and even, in a Smithsonian way, Craft's absolutely museum like version on MusicMasters (making a big deal of the felt mallets, hoo boy!).


Currently, I've been obsessing on individual movements, like, the 1st from 'Movements', or 'Chez Petrouchka', or parts of 'Le Baiser...', or the xylophone in the 'Firebird'... trying to figure out the difference between 1911/1947 Petrouchka...


I had no idea IS would become the fulcrum he has, but, I continue to hear the seeds of Xenakis, and other such, in the strangest of places... definitely hearing the seeds of Minimalism...


Neil, maybe as I'm beginning my "listen to it from the beginning" of starting with 'Le Sacre' and working through each phase, I will finally reach 1959 again... I had no idea it would be so hard to get back to Xenakis from the pruned world of IS (Xenakis is what IS would sound like if IS allowed his weeds to grow, instead of pruning pruning pruning)...

'The Rite of Spring'

I'm slowly listening to the intro with the versions I have (Dorati/Chicago, Davis/Concertgebouw, Marriner, Salonen/SONY, Inbal, and Barenboim/Teldec'live'). Dorati's recording is deliciously full of drooling and burbling in the intro, but so is Marriner (though more distantly recorded)...

I have made it through the entirety of IgorMania2017 WITHOUT releasing the kraken, but, now, it has to be done... Xenakis will have to be the love child of Stravinsky and Varese, and wait just a little longer (I know, I know )...

'Le Sacre' is just FULL of incredible moments, and since I saved it for last, I can here the echoes (such as the savage ending rhythms of the Symphony in 3 Movements, the "oriental" melodies, the abundant grace note inflections) in the later phases.


Yea, sorry, looks like we're on a 'Sacre' roll for a short while

[Karl Henning]

I've now got more 'Soldats' than I ever could possibly want- though- I have now warmed up to the whole 'Soldat' thing

Good.

I had no idea IS would become the fulcrum he has, but, I continue to hear the seeds of Xenakis, and other such, in the strangest of places... definitely hearing the seeds of Minimalism...

Aye.

'The Rite of Spring'

I'm slowly listening to the intro with the versions I have (Dorati/Chicago, Davis/Concertgebouw, Marriner, Salonen/SONY, Inbal, and Barenboim/Teldec'live'). Dorati's recording is deliciously full of drooling and burbling in the intro, but so is Marriner (though more distantly recorded)...

I have made it through the entirety of IgorMania2017 WITHOUT releasing the kraken, but, now, it has to be done... Xenakis will have to be the love child of Stravinsky and Varese, and wait just a little longer (I know, I know )...

'Le Sacre' is just FULL of incredible moments, and since I saved it for last, I can here the echoes (such as the savage ending rhythms of the Symphony in 3 Movements, the "oriental" melodies, the abundant grace note inflections) in the later phases.

Yea, sorry, looks like we're on a 'Sacre' roll for a short while

Good.

[Karl Henning]

Doubtful. He was a man of businesslike work habits.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[ritter]

Doubtful. He was a man of businesslike work habits.

...but he also liked his scotch! 

[Karl Henning]

...but he also liked his scotch! 

Sure!  But he may not have mixed them.

[snyprrr]

Snyprrr, you know Bartok exists right?   

I got the 'Two Portraits' Op.5 with the Dohnanyi 'Firebird' (which is a great proto-digital recording, and performance). These pieces were new to me, so, of course Alien Dearest, I couldn't wait to check them out...

I gathered a long cantinela followed by a "grotesquerie" (I always love to hear "grotesques"). Well,... mm,.. eh,... yea, the first piece has a very tangled, woodsy feel, full moon, two violins above... it DOES go on for a little bit. The second piece sounded  like... Schoenberg?

So, mm, new Bartok - uber complexity circa 1914,... it's gonna be "chewy"...

My core wasn't shaken, but I did like the sound of the orchestramand such...




WELL- my fav piece of the 'Firebird' has got to be the couple of selections BEFORE the 'Infernal Dance'. Why no one turns to these, and the 'Dance' instead, amazes me, especially here. Those passages DO prefigure IX's multiple things happening at once... I've become obsessed with the xylophone in the 'Firebird' (too loud?, too soft? must I find another??)...

Davis/RCO

Dohnanyi/VPO

Boulez/NY 1975

Dutoit... good, but compared to those three, wow,...


sORRY nEIL, i'M JUST HAVING AN ORGY OF (whoops!) Firebird-Petrushka-Sacre... it's gotta be the last throes of IgorMania...


Boulez DG Firebird sounds more like the 'ICEbird'... eh? No matter HOW "volcanic", it still comes off as metallic sharp razor blades... I mean, I like it, but it's not the FIREbird...

[Karl Henning]

To me, absorption in and/or obsession with Igor Fyodorovich is nearly as natural as breathing.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Seriously people, who needs Le Sacre when you have the thunderous, earth-shaking "Infernal Dance" from the Firebird? 

I like Sacre as much as the next guy but The Firebird is absolutely divine.

[kishnevi]

Seriously people, who needs Le Sacre when you have the thunderous, earth-shaking "Infernal Dance" from the Firebird? 

You need Le Sacre because it lasts longer.

[Karl Henning]

;^)

[snyprrr]

I've been stuck comparing the 'Procession of the Sage-Adoration of the Earth-Dance of the Earth' ending to Part1 of 'Le Sacre'. Of course, this music is like a test example for any orchestra. And, of course, it IS earth shattering stuff!

The ending of the 'Procession' sounds to me like a mandala in sound. I can "see" the vortex, surrounded by the maelstrom.

It's all just too much...

(this is the first day the computer has allowed me to access the interwebs in like two weeks!)





By the way- Dohnanyi's Vienna Stravinsky is some of the best I've heard, 'Firebird' and 'Petrushka'. He illuminates a lot of stuff that you don't readily hear in every recording. Great stuff!

[snyprrr]

I finally got around to probably the very last stop on our IgorMania2017 Tour, the second part of 'Le Sacre'. I had forgotten everything after the slow section, but, as I was becoming slightly lulled by the mellow music (also the same as the intro to 'Le Rossignol'?), the action comes out of nowhere, and I imagine that this is the spot where the audience rebelled, or the riot started. The jolt is quite sudden, I can imagine the audience not being... uh... triggered, lol.

But, 'Part 2' comes off more like a high speed food processor, chop chop chop, very much more bludgeoning and repetitive and primitive than even 'Part 1'. Also, it seems the themes are less memorable to me, as if he just wants to get the thing over with already.

However, I was listening to Salonen/SONY, which is the most in-your-face monster fest I've heard, absolutely unhinged from first to last, my raving favorite.

I'm taking Dorati and Davis on the road today...

[Karl Henning]

Resistance is futile  0:)

[snyprrr]

I keep falling myself into IgorMania@2017 binges 

I've been trying to break free. So far, Malipiero, Villa-Lobos, and Milhaud have been the best candidates, but, of course, there abounds Stravinskyisms. I still haven't been able to jump to IX, but I'm switching strategies with him (I'm going to fins all his "Greek" stuff to listen to first).

Yes, Stravinsky has ruined A LOT of Composers for me now, especially since I did such a big purchasing before heading into this. Well, at least I have a lot to listen to when I get around to it!


I'm hearing the rocking motion of the intro to 'Le Rossignol' in so much- it's like Roger Sessions's go-to.

'Le Sacre' practically contains the whole of IX and others... I would love to hear a re-composition with all the signposts up front, starting with the 'Augurs' at double speed!! BOOM BOOM indeed!!


Yea, so I'm wallowing in Firebird-Petrushka-Rite, just hearing things in the transitions. There really is not much hope of breaking free too easily. And I'm not even buying anymore, which is incredible and amazing all by itself!! It's just so much stuff to hear, it alwaus sounds fresh...


BUT, Stravinsky's Works List isn't the biggest in history, and I am starting to crave moreMoreMORE!! But,... there... is... no... more...

DIE SOLDATEN, here I come? BAZ was my shizzle before Igor, maybe I can start dating again?....