Author Topic: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)  (Read 19303 times)

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Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

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Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« on: June 27, 2010, 02:09:51 PM »
I need some recommendations for recordings of this composer. Thanks.
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Offline Clever Hans

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2010, 03:57:31 PM »
Ensemble Clément Janequin - Ensemble Organum > Missa Pange Lingua
Philippe Herreweghe - La Chapelle Royale > Stabat Mater, Motets
Ensemble Clément Janequin > Adieu, Mes Amours - Chansons
Tallis Scholars > Josquin Masses - Malheur me bat - Fortuna desperata
Tallis Scholars > L'Homme Arme Masses
The Hilliard Ensemble > Missa 'Hercules Dux Ferrariae'
The Clerks' Group > Missa Malheur Me Bat - Motets & Chansons
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 04:17:06 PM by Clever Hans »

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2010, 05:19:10 PM »
Just own 3-4 discs (1 a mixture of composers) of Josquin- the two that come to mind are the Tallis Scholars on Gimell, a good label for this type of music; ASV is also another label to review -  :D

 

Offline Novi

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2010, 05:40:24 PM »


I'm not sure if this box set is still available, but I think individual discs still float around. Some beautiful stuff here.
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Für den der heimlich lauschet.

Offline mjwal

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2010, 05:31:03 AM »
Apart from the various recordings of Josquin's masses mentioned above - I would also recommend the Summerly Missa L'homme Armé sexti toni (Naxos) and two very affordable discs of chansons and motets: the Ensemble Clément Janequin's Adieu, mes amours ( hmf musique d'abord) already mentioned and the Hilliard Ensemble's Motets & chansons (Virgin Veritas), all three of which include the Déploration sur la mort de Johannes Ockeghem, than which there is no lovelier exequy for a friend and master's passing in all music.
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

Offline Brewski

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 06:33:39 AM »
Just own 3-4 discs (1 a mixture of composers) of Josquin- the two that come to mind are the Tallis Scholars on Gimell, a good label for this type of music; ASV is also another label to review -  :D

 

Another vote for these two, which are really gorgeous performances and recordings.  The Missa Pange lingua was (IIRC) the first early music recording ever to win Gramophone's "Recording of the Year."  It certainly deserves it.

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Offline The new erato

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2010, 06:39:17 AM »
Apart from the various recordings of Josquin's masses mentioned above - I would also recommend the Summerly Missa L'homme Armé sexti toni (Naxos) and two very affordable discs of chansons and motets: the Ensemble Clément Janequin's Adieu, mes amours ( hmf musique d'abord) already mentioned and the Hilliard Ensemble's Motets & chansons (Virgin Veritas), all three of which include the Déploration sur la mort de Johannes Ockeghem, than which there is no lovelier exequy for a friend and master's passing in all music.
Good advice which I heartily concur!

But this prompts me to mention Ockeghem's own deploration over Binchois'death, "Mort tu as navre", as equally fine. The Orlando Consort on Archiv do a marvellous rendering. Both works deserve to be heard as masterpieces in a glorious tradition.

Offline mjwal

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 10:01:17 AM »
Thanks for that tip, erato - I see that the Orlando's recording of that, various chansons and the Missa De Plus En Plus is coming out on Brilliant, which is good for my purse. I have never heard the piece you mention - up till now Ockeghem has meant chiefly the Requiem and the L'Homme armé mass to me.
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

Marc

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2010, 07:50:01 PM »
Singing Josquin in a choir is a heavenly experience.
Because his music is.

Here's a fine mix of Desprez' Beata Virgina Mass and some Holy Virgin motets by Jean Mouton (1459-1522):



http://www.amazon.co.uk/Josquin-Mouton-Vocal-Works-Desprez/dp/B0000007EO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1277786878&sr=1-2

(The discs are nicely priced ;).)

Offline Que

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2010, 08:38:52 PM »
Another vote for the recordings by A Sei Voci:



Terrific, emotionally intense and non-smooth/lively performances. REVIEW
Must-have IMO.

Q

Offline Clever Hans

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 08:24:06 AM »
The Orlando Consort have a great recording of Josquin motets that is one to a part.

A Sei Voci tends tends to use male singers and add a children's choir for e.g. masses/non-motets, which can sometimes sound a little muddy or sloppy, depending on how particular one is. 

Likewise, in the past, the Tallis Scholars have been criticized for being too soprano-oriented, with two great a difference between male and female voices, and choosing surface beauty over scholarship. Their older Missa Pange Lingua recording has been specifically derided for this, and also some odd rhythm and tempo choices.

Both Ensemble Clément Janequin and A Sei Voci are much better in Missa Pange Lingua.

The Tallis' recent Malheur me bat recording, however, does not suffer from these problems, nor does really their recording of the L'Homme Arme Masses.

Some people will prefer A Sei Voci's more lively timbres for the Arme Masses, albeit with maybe less precision.


I forgot:

De Labyrintho, an italian group

Musica Symbolica (with Missa Gaudeamus)



and

Music for Ercole I d'Este (with Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae)




Both very well reviewed. I only have the former, which is great, but their Hercules Dux Ferrariae was also rated by some as better than the Hilliard Ensemble's or Pomerium's.




 

« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 11:57:26 AM by Clever Hans »

Offline rubio

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2010, 07:15:15 PM »
Does his oeuvre consists mostly of solo choir music? Or does any of these recommendations also include some instrumentation as well (which I clearly prefer)?
“One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain” Bob Marley

Offline The new erato

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2010, 08:32:22 PM »
Does his oeuvre consists mostly of solo choir music? Or does any of these recommendations also include some instrumentation as well (which I clearly prefer)?
No. Like most composers of the time, I don't think he wrote any, and anyway, instrumental music would have other uses and functions than the religious music that these highly regarded and paid composers were into music for.

Offline rubio

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2010, 09:53:29 PM »
No. Like most composers of the time, I don't think he wrote any, and anyway, instrumental music would have other uses and functions than the religious music that these highly regarded and paid composers were into music for.

I think at least one of the CD's in the A Sei Voci set include some instrumentation. But maybe they have added it to Desprez original score.
“One good thing about music, when it hits- you feel no pain” Bob Marley

Offline The new erato

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2010, 11:36:23 PM »
I think at least one of the CD's in the A Sei Voci set include some instrumentation. But maybe they have added it to Desprez original score.
I was thinking solo instrumental here. Adding instrumentation for the Flemish/Burgundian school today is regarded as without historic foundation and therefore frowned upon. There are some wonderful "unhistoric" recordings though of Dufay by Clemencic (Messe Ave Regina Coelorum) and Davis Munrow (Missa Se la Face ay pale) which I recommend if this is preferred.

The exception of course being Spanish rennaisance where instrumentation was usual. Glossa has some wonderful Morales and Guerrero discs with Michael Noone at the helm including a varied instrumentation, and snatches of this kind of thing can be fopund by Savall on Alia Vox as well (I strongly recommend the wonderful Carlos V disc).

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2010, 11:43:51 PM »
I was thinking solo instrumental here. Adding instrumentation for the Flemish/Burgundian school today is regarded as without historic foundation and therefore frowned upon. There are some wonderful "unhistoric" recordings though of Dufay by Clemencic (Messe Ave Regina Coelorum) and Davis Munrow (Missa Se la Face ay pale) which I recommend if this is preferred.

I have a disc of Dufay isorhythmic motets (Huelgas Ensemble) which adds sackbuts and a couple of other instruments as accompaniment. Discreet but effective. I wish more ensembles would do likewise. Maybe my modern ears have just been corrupted by instrumental sound, but listening to nothing but voices for a whole disc can get pretty tiring.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Offline mjwal

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2010, 04:18:18 AM »
I have the very disc to delight rubio's and Velimir's hearts -
 Josquin Desprez: Chansons, Frottole & Instrumental Pieces
played by The Nonesuch Consort directed by Joshua Rifkin (among the musicians is Richard Taruskin: bass & bass viol...). There are instruments playing here most of the time, with or without voices. Very charming and lively - a couple of pieces are total earworms. Now all you have to do is convince Nonesuch to bring this back to the public ear via a newly remastered CD version.
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

Offline Josquin des Prez

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2010, 10:13:11 AM »
My favored recordings are the Missa Pangue Lingua by the Ensemble Clement Janequin (with the Ensemble Organum singing the proper), which personally i consider to be the single greatest mass of the entire Renaissance, and the recording of the late motets by the Orlando Consort. As an addendum, you can also seek out the Huelgas Ensemble recording of the Qui habitat, a motet in 24 parts. Those are my desert island picks, for what its worth.

Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2010, 10:24:43 PM »
My favored recordings are the Missa Pangue Lingua by the Ensemble Clement Janequin (with the Ensemble Organum singing the proper), which personally i consider to be the single greatest mass of the entire Renaissance, and the recording of the late motets by the Orlando Consort. As an addendum, you can also seek out the Huelgas Ensemble recording of the Qui habitat, a motet in 24 parts. Those are my desert island picks, for what its worth.

Thanks to all for the recommendations. For now I just bought this Missa Pangue Lingua at Rasputin's today. I've always liked Ensemble Organum.
If you really dislike Bach you keep quiet about it! - Andras Schiff

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Josquin Desprez (c1450–1455 - 27 Aug 1521)
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2013, 05:46:59 AM »
I have the very disc to delight rubio's and Velimir's hearts -
 Josquin Desprez: Chansons, Frottole & Instrumental Pieces
played by The Nonesuch Consort directed by Joshua Rifkin (among the musicians is Richard Taruskin: bass & bass viol...). There are instruments playing here most of the time, with or without voices. Very charming and lively - a couple of pieces are total earworms. Now all you have to do is convince Nonesuch to bring this back to the public ear via a newly remastered CD version.

And 3 years after this post was made, I happened to find this record in the 50 cent rack at my local used store. Nice stuff!
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach